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Which civil liberties have you lost in the last few years?
<mod cut: personal insult> haven't heard that our government can now listen to our phone calls, go through our mail, look into our banking, find out what we read at the library - all without a probable cause warrant. They don't have to prove TO ANYONE that you have done something wrong to snatch you off the street, fly you to a foreign country and interrogate or torture you. Nope, nobody has to give the go ahead for that to happen and you have NO rights. You can't even have an attorney represent you.
Did you watch 60 minutes last week? Did you see the former military guy who went to work in Iraq for an Iraq security company only to find out they might be stashing and hiding weapons caches? When he was home in America over Christmas he went to the FBI to report this and actually kept working for the company for several months while giving ongoing information to the FBI. When the Army got wind of this company's dealings they arrested him and another American and held them in a prison at the airport without an attorney - even though he's an American citizen and they had no proof he had done anything illegal. Why don't you go read the transcript of how they treated our fellow citizen who was just trying to help out his country until they finally learned that he was on our side.
Did you miss the last 6 years? I would think that most conservatives would be freaked out by the government wanting your private information.
My my, I will pull my head out of the sand if you will pull yours out of your ***, for just a moment try to focus on the question before you start formulating your smarmy smug answer!I am asking you! what civil libertys have YOU lost, had your mail read? phone tapped? been hauled off to another country? The government doesnt want my private information, and I have nothing to hide.
I am just thinking - if my mail has been read or my phone tapped, they probably won't bother telling me about it. I am sure with a few of my posts here I am on their national security threat list by now, for "emboldening" the AlQuaeda who are secretly monitoring these exchanges.
I am just thinking - if my mail has been read or my phone tapped, they probably won't bother telling me about it. I am sure with a few of my posts here I am on their national security threat list by now, for "emboldening" the AlQuaeda who are secretly monitoring these exchanges.
I guess thats why i dont worry about it, because I am on the right side, maybe they will recruit me to read mail!
You're in denial. If these things happened to other people, they could happen to you, too. You have nothing to hide? What if someone steals your identity? What if that identity gets mixed up with some terrorists? What if you try to fly out of the country and get flagged as a terrorist? What if they lock you up for years without a lawyer, trial, or even being charged? What if they decide you shouldn't even be allowed to contact your family because you might "pass on information"? Don't think it can happen? It HAS happened (though, not with these exact same circumstances).
what if a black helicoper lands in my back yard and steals my whole family, except for my dog but they implant him with a secret decoder chip that records everthing i do and since he is all i have left i tell him EVERYTHING!!!
Capitalism is the present day cancer if you ask me, the rich keep getting richer, while the rest of us pathetic dogs have to work our asses up to make ends meet and god forbid if we have a problem like a medical emergency or a car accident or a problem with a pet, our lives are ****ED for a long time if not for the rest of our life
I am a socialist, I will vote for the candidate who has the most socialist tendencies, **** this present day Capitalism, it is a ****ing joke, **** Bush and all the *******s who voted for him
How much is enough money? I am for free market, but in todays day if you dont have connections or money(or are an illegal immigrant) you are absolutley ****ed
Let's try to stick to reality. Fishing and hunting folk are the bad guys to the fanatics among some animal rights groups. So are hot-dog and hamburger eaters. 'Liberal idiots' as you seem to want to call us do plenty of all four of those things, and if you had any public funding underwriting your stream clean-up project, you got it only because a liberal was able to keep a neocon from cutting that out of the budget. We can go back and forth over Iraq or immigrants all day long, but let's face the simple fact that it's outdoorsmen and liberals who are on the same page when it comes to use and protection of the environment and natural resources. The neocons never saw a stream they couldn't pollute, a forest they couldn't cut down, or a mountain they couldn't blow up to see what was underneath. Simple fact. You might recall that during his 2000 campaign, the future El Presidente W went to the Gettysburg National Military Park for a photo-op standing beneath the leaky roof of a park building. Shameful neglect by the Democrats there. Would you like to guess whether that roof has been repaired in the seven years since??? That's what you will get from neocons. Nothing.
No we didn't have any public funding and we didn't need it. We did it becasue it was the right thing to do. We also educate people about keeping their lands and habitats clean and pollution free.
We have never had any stream polluting parties or forest cutting days. I would never want to be lumped into the same category as the liberals when it comes to the environment however, I am not that much of a whacko.
I don't think I had you in mind specifically when I said 'liberal idiots' but thanks for doing us the favor of lumping yourself into that category for all of us.
<mod cut: personal insult> haven't heard that our government can now listen to our phone calls, go through our mail, look into our banking, find out what we read at the library - all without a probable cause warrant. They don't have to prove TO ANYONE that you have done something wrong to snatch you off the street, fly you to a foreign country and interrogate or torture you. Nope, nobody has to give the go ahead for that to happen and you have NO rights. You can't even have an attorney represent you.
Did you watch 60 minutes last week? Did you see the former military guy who went to work in Iraq for an Iraq security company only to find out they might be stashing and hiding weapons caches? When he was home in America over Christmas he went to the FBI to report this and actually kept working for the company for several months while giving ongoing information to the FBI. When the Army got wind of this company's dealings they arrested him and another American and held them in a prison at the airport without an attorney - even though he's an American citizen and they had no proof he had done anything illegal. Why don't you go read the transcript of how they treated our fellow citizen who was just trying to help out his country until they finally learned that he was on our side.
Did you miss the last 6 years? I would think that most conservatives would be freaked out by the government wanting your private information.
Do you honestly think that all the previous admins before this one didn't do this? You act like it is something new when it isn't. Doesn't make it right by any stretch.
Capitalism is the present day cancer if you ask me, the rich keep getting richer, while the rest of us pathetic dogs have to work our asses up to make ends meet and god forbid if we have a problem like a medical emergency or a car accident or a problem with a pet, our lives are ****ED for a long time if not for the rest of our life
I am a socialist, I will vote for the candidate who has the most socialist tendencies, **** this present day Capitalism, it is a ****ing joke, **** Bush and all the *******s who voted for him
How much is enough money? I am for free market, but in todays day if you dont have connections or money(or are an illegal immigrant) you are absolutley ****ed
Tell that to all the people in the U.S who started out with nothing and became successful beyond their wildest dreams. Tell that to the two guys that started "google" in their garage. . . Tell that to the guy that started "Craigs List."
I am sorry if you consider yourself a "pathetic dog." I am sorry that working hard and enjoying its fruits is not something you aspire to.
Needaplace - I agree with you. Modern business is not longer Capitalist. Under the tutelage of the military contractors that saw a great opportunity to increase business by supporting the Brits in two World Wars and creating the Cold War to keep the money flowing, we have created the very industrial socialism we were supposedly fighting. The neocons have just taken this to its logical extreme.
Even the food industry has seen the value of monopoly/oligopoly by pushing the crops where only they can provide the seed. They have corrupted the USDA into pushing the “get big or get out” policies that have destroyed countless family farms and rural communities in this and other countries while driving food costs and their profits to ever new highs. The entire ethanol scam is just another way to funnel money into the coffers of ADM and the like. (Making ethanol costs more energy than it yields as fuel. Reforming the methane heating gas into gasoline would be more efficient.) Probably the worst offenders of this mutated capitalism are the aerospace/high tech/space technology companies. They are nothing but a welfare system for their owners and managers. If they have the majority of their business with the federal government the government should own them in order to control the costs.
The neocons in this corrupt government try to scare us with terror threats but do not even try to secure our borders because a secure border would actually keep most of the illegal aliens out of the country and Smith foods would actually have to pay decent wages and benefits. That would really cut the profit growth and they can’t have that.
I have lots more but this is long enough already.
BTW – The neocons, under Cheney and the Dubya, have removed most of the protections for individuals in our Constitution. This is the primary political question at this time. Are we a Constitutional Republic controlled by the law or are we a serial dictatorship controlled by the whims of the leader?
No we didn't have any public funding and we didn't need it. We did it becasue it was the right thing to do. We also educate people about keeping their lands and habitats clean and pollution free.
That's great, and I mean that quite seriously, but when the other side is all about externalizing the costs of pollution and degradation on a national scale, local groups and individuals are not going to be a sufficient force to keep up. If we do not work collectively (i.e., through government and/or other large scale organizations) there is no future but a bleak one for the environment as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9
I would never want to be lumped into the same category as the liberals when it comes to the environment however, I am not that much of a whacko.
Well, you have one group to whom pollution represents profit. You have another to whom it represents blight. Which one do you really want to be lumped in with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9
I don't think I had you in mind specifically when I said 'liberal idiots' but thanks for doing us the favor of lumping yourself into that category for all of us.
Oh, I've been called a lot of names and accused of a lot of things over the years. I just keep harping on the facts. A lot of people seem to come around after a while...
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