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I'm glad everyone recognizes the fact that Lt. Bush never showed up to participate in his National Guard responsibility. I'm also glad that people understand if he was given preferential treatment to just be accepted into flight school over more seriously qualified candidates than he likely was given preferential treatment while learning how to fly.
Want another example? John McCain (R-AZ) had a very famous Navy father.
John McCain graduated almost dead last at the Naval Academy, the kind of placement that would have insured he held a job working in the supply chain somewhere if his last name was not McCain.
As it turned out, after graduation he was sent to the Navy's most elite flying squadron.
I'm glad everyone recognizes the fact that Lt. Bush never showed up to participate in his National Guard responsibility. I'm also glad that people understand if he was given preferential treatment to just be accepted into flight school over more seriously qualified candidates than he likely was given preferential treatment while learning how to fly.
Want another example? John McCain (R-AZ) had a very famous Navy father.
John McCain graduated almost dead last at the Naval Academy, the kind of placement that would have insured he held a job working in the supply chain somewhere if his last name was not McCain.
As it turned out, after graduation he was sent to the Navy's most elite flying squadron.
It pays to have famous Daddy's...
A-4s were not and never became the Navy's "most elite flying squadron". Aviators ran away from those planes due to their "interesting" flight and handling characteristics. If one flew an F-4 during that time period then the elite label might be somewhat operative.
You also don't seem to understand the way the Navy works. An Academy graduate is at the top of the heap for assignments and training no matter his class rank. Especially during McCain's time when there was really only one major-engineering.
Having gone through USN flight training I want to assure you that if McCain had not been competent and proficient he wouldn't have been awarded his wings. His father would have had nothing to do with that. It's a safety issue and the qualifications are difficult, the things you have to do are complicated and any one of a hundred factors can ground you. Including not being thought safe even if you're proficient in everything else.
And yes, you'll mention that he augered a plane or two in during training. Not usual but also not that uncommon.
You'll probably next say that McCain "allowed himself to be shot down" as you did during the election.
As this relates to President Bush, Air Force/ANG pilot training is very similar with the same pitfalls to achievement.
Having gone through USN flight training I want to assure you that if McCain had not been competent and proficient he wouldn't have been awarded his wings. His father would have had nothing to do with that. It's a safety issue and the qualifications are difficult, the things you have to do are complicated and any one of a hundred factors can ground you. Including not being thought safe even if you're proficient in everything else.
And yes, you'll mention that he augered a plane or two in during training. Not usual but also not that uncommon.
Anyone else with his "safety" record while at Annapolis would have found themselves on the outside lookin' in. Not John McCain. He was pretty much assured he'd keep his standing, safety record be damned.
Or academic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
You'll probably next say that McCain "allowed himself to be shot down" as you did during the election. As this relates to President Bush, Air Force/ANG pilot training is very similar with the same pitfalls to achievement.
"Achievement"?
Also, please don't lie about what I did, or in this case, did not, say during the election.
Bush never achieved anything, John McCain found fame and fortune as the POW and shoo in Senator son of the famous Navy father, the kind of "story", some of it likely exaggerated, that has been used by politicians for centuries.
Military service = competence.
Not always true. And certainly not with the last two Republican Presidential candidates
Moderator note: This discussion was off-topic for its thread, so I've split it off.
Reality check! Bush did not give a damn about the military! He proved that during his own enlistment(?) What little that he did was for his cronies in the military complex, can you say haliburton? Bringing up the POTUS in this discussion as no baring on anything. Obama did not serve and NO ONE in Bush's administration served either (don't count Colin Powell b/c they did not listen to him anyway) but yet started the crap in Iraq!
Only in your Bush hating mind.
Let's have some facts to support your assinine charges.
"He performed Guard duty as an F-102 pilot through April 1972, logging a total of 336 flight hours[2] and was promoted once during his service, to First Lieutenant.[3]
In November 1970, Lt. Col.Jerry B. Killian, commander of the 111th Fighter Squadron, recommended that Bush be promoted to First Lieutenant, calling him "a dynamic outstanding young officer" who stood out as "a top notch fighter interceptor pilot." He said that "Lt. Bush's skills far exceed his contemporaries," and that "he is a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership. Lt. Bush is also a good follower with outstanding disciplinary traits and an impeccable military bearing."[4] Air National Guard members could volunteer for active duty service with the Air Force in a program called Palace Alert, which deployed F-102 pilots to Europe and Southeast Asia, including Vietnam and Thailand. According to three pilots from Bush's squadron, Bush inquired about this program but was advised by the base commander that he did not have the necessary experience (500 hours) at the time and that the F-102 would soon be retired.[1][5.
[SIZE=4][SIZE=4]From factcheck[/SIZE]
[CENTER][SIZE=4]What the Records Show[/SIZE][/CENTER]
[SIZE=3]The records show that National Guard officials credited Bush with enough points to meet minimum requirements for the 12-month period ending May 26, 1973, the period of the original alleged "gap" in his records. An Air Force "Reserve Personnel Record Card" shows Bush received a total of 9 points for active duty training, 31 points for inactive duty training, and 15 points awarded for his membership in the reserves. The points total 56, exceeding the 50-point requirement for satisfactory service during the period, though barely.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Other documents include one-page Air Force Reserve summaries of points earned in the 12-month period ending in May 1973, and the subsequent period running through Bush's last credited service in July 1973. (See "supporting documents").[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Also released were copies of microfilm payroll records summarizing the days for which Bush was paid in 1972 and 1973. Though blurry and hard to read, they reflect payments for 82 days of services in 1972 and 1973.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Also released was a memo the White House requested from Retired Lieutenant Colonel Albert. C. Lloyd Jr., a former personnel director for the Texas Air Guard during the time of Bush's service. Lloyd said of the payroll and personnel records, "This clearly shows that 1LT George W. Bush has satisfactory years for both 72-73 and 73-74 which proves that he completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lloyd was later interviewed by the Boston Globe , which questioned whether Bush had met "minimum training" requirements in addition to "minimum retirement" credits. The newspaper said Guardsman are required to serve 15 days of active duty to meet training requirements. The Globe quoted Lloyd as saying of Bush: "[/SIZE][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][SIZE=3]Should he have done more? Yes, he should have. Did he have to? No."[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][CENTER] [/CENTER]
Somewhere in Texas, a Village is missing its Idiot.
Not anymore. He moved back to Texas in 2009.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough
How do you feel now?
Same as I did before. I know Bush was allowed to go aWol because his Daddy had connections. He could lean on a certain Texas Air National Guard commander to not only make things right, to insure that it was all kept quiet.
Quote:
This is a Convair F-102 Delta Dagger. It is a second-generation, supersonic fighter-interceptor. It cruises at 845 mph.
There were some minor aerodynamic problems with the F-102. For example, at certain power settings and angles of attack – like, say, take-off – the jet compressor would stall and the aircraft would roll inverted. It is no picnic, skill-wise, to fly a modern F-16 with advanced avionics and fly-by-wire flight control systems. The workload on the F-102 was far higher. The F-16 has an accident rate of 4.14 occurrences per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102’s accident rate was more than three times that: 13.69 per 100,000 hours. 875 F-102A interceptors were built; 259 – almost 30% – were lost to accidents or enemy action while serving in Vietnam. George W. Bush flew hundreds of hours in the F-102.
Same as I did before. I know Bush was allowed to go aWol because his Daddy had connections. He could lean on a certain Texas Air National Guard commander to not only make things right, to insure that it was all kept quiet.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!
Again you make outrages claims without any data to back it up. Should we believe you just because you say so? I posted in your post and in a previous post with data to prove you wrong and all you do is post Ha, ha's.
And also we have an objection to what was his sudden desire to be an ultra-hawk when there was no chance that he had to risk his privileged behind one bit.
Clinton went into Bonia and Kososvo. Bombed Afghanistan and Iraq. And escalated a peace mission in Somalia.
Moderator note: This discussion was off-topic for its thread, so I've split it off.
Reality check! Bush did not give a damn about the military! He proved that during his own enlistment(?) What little that he did was for his cronies in the military complex, can you say haliburton? Bringing up the POTUS in this discussion as no baring on anything. Obama did not serve and NO ONE in Bush's administration served either (don't count Colin Powell b/c they did not listen to him anyway) but yet started the crap in Iraq!
Since you've set the parameters for discussion, there's no discussion but you're welcome to your point of view.
Bush did serve and completed his duty as Commander-in-Chief for eight years. Achieving more than any... heck, most. There's no higher service excepting to give one's life, the ultimate sacrifice.
Again you make outrages claims without any data to back it up. Should we believe you just because you say so? I posted in your post and in a previous post with data to prove you wrong and all you do is post Ha, ha's.
I think it is I who is doing the laughing.
YOU made the claim he was an experienced pilot but there is NO PROOF to back up this assertion. I don't CARE what someone says unless they FLEW with him. I want to see logbooks that logged flight hours, I want to hear from his fellow pilots that they FLEW with Lt. Bush.
Nothing. All you hear are crickets.
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