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... who is someone that got an education, worked hard, didn't make excuses, didn't think of himself of a victim that black people could look up to...
...oh yeah Barack Obama.
And we see how you characterize him daily. It is amazing that the hypocrisy on this message board doesn't literally choke some of you out.
'We' as in blacks and 'you' as in whites? Where in that brand of fuzzy math have you left room for the majority of whites who not only voted for him but find those screaming hitler, carrying posters of Africans scantily clad w/ spears, repugnant? I've got a history on CD- anyone is free to dig up any comment I've made about Obama. I defy anyone to look for the evidence of my 'crime'.
These people do have the right to free speech even if every word out of their mouths to date has been delusional nonsense. Will you ignore the majority who disagree but have chosen to pay them no mind? Ignore those who spend the time debating them? Your attitude, although born of historic reality, clouds your judgment present tense and talks you into being a racist yourself. 'An eye for an eye' was dispensed with as illegitimate justice, but people seem to forever try to resurrect it. Think about it. You really have been racist convicting the majority wholesale, and those that are racist are happy to hear you bought into their spin. They're lapping it up like dogs.
I really don't think people hear themselves talk too often Wapasha. If we are to realize fully our America, right to free speech is one thing, but declaring war on citizens denying their right to merely exist crosses a line so foul it's unpardonable.
There are many conservative values I adhere to strictly in my life as a permanent lock but I cannot in good conscience support the party you're cheering. Asking yourselves why is a more productive effort than the nasty behavior your party has engaged. As far as I'm concerned it's another country you're trying to live in. Not America. You're free to leave but you're not free to abuse your countrymen or revise the constitution to suit yourself.
I'd like to know of any individual or group that doesn't hold some kind of prejudice/bigotry toward another individual or group.
All humans are afflicted with it on some level which strongly suggests it is inherently human. I know of at least one liberal study that shows skin color bias in babies as young as 6 months. This could possibly be hardwired for survival or something like that - or the results in the study could have been misinterpreted.
Regardless of whether or not this bias is inherent, remaining so stems from either ignorance or by choice. I don't mean ignorance as an insult (unless it's by choice), but simply not knowing facts and being unfamiliar with different ethnicities, the tendency to not trust those who behave differently or don't look like us, etc.
I don't think prejudice will ever be removed from the human race. There will always be some who either don't have the opportunity to gain firsthand knowledge of other cultures, ethnicities, etc., or those who choose to remain ignorant and rely on stereotypes. But that doesn't make them racists. It makes them bigots.
Prejudice/bigotry exists for political, ethnic, cultural, skin color, religion, and possibly other things. All of these things are getting lumped into "racism" which undermines effect and the ability to recognize real racism, which is primarily the belief that a particular race(skin color) possesses inherent superiority to others.
However, there is no scientific basis for the concept of "race" anyway so, IMO, we need to get away from it. It is only a social and political construct. That's makes our society rather dumb, in fact.
ETA: so many people use the terms bigot and racist interchangeably, and I've done so myself, I'm thinking of changing "bigotry" to "bias", so as to more clearly define the difference between bias and racism.
What does it matter? The effect on those who are discriminated against is all the same.
I am telling you that when my family and many of our friends came here, they did not have ANY community support in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They came with nothing and built themselves up without welfare or handouts. There were no friends or family (for most) or familiar faces waiting for them. I can cite you dozens of personal examples of this. Especially with Indian people, who had not been brought over here earlier in the growth of this country to help build the railroads.
Of course, now there are many more Indian support groups and things - but again, a small pockets of social networks seems hardly like having millions of people of the same race living on the same continent for hundreds of years, 140 of which they have been freed and regarded as equals in the eyes of the law (if obviously not in society). Then add the decades of affirmative action. There should have been WAY more progress.
Asian communities and networks have been in existence much longer than the 50's and 60's, especially on the west coast. Perhaps your family immigrated to an area with little Asian presence. Even so, network-building for the Asian immigrant in that type of area back then really needed only start with capital, family and a few close friends - not to mention a social climate conducive to their economic and social mobility.
Truth be told, many Asians even in the segregated South actually suffered very little from the economic and social oppression endured by blacks. In fact, I knew of a Chinese lady from Louisiana whose family was allowed to live in a neighborhood which was off-limits to blacks, and who attended segregated (all-white) schools in the 50's and 60's. Moreover, being considered legally "equal" meant absolutely nothing without a social climate conducive to equality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
So, no...I disagree they would have been just as successful. I think there is something deeper and more politically incorrect at the root of this. It may lie in the difference of kidnapping and dragging random poor souls from Africa over here cruelly and against their will vs the more educated and ambitious of the asian populations making their way here with the intent to make use of the economic opportunity.
Even if the blacks and the asians were facing the same hardships you speak of, the blacks have been here longer and in greater number - why has their progress in particular been stunted?
Then it sounds like you believe the root of black underachievement to be black inferiority, in which case you would be dead wrong. One need only look at the relative success of recent African immigrant groups to see how native blacks might have fared absent the legacy of the hardships that uniquely shaped their experience in this country, their numbers and length of stay notwithstanding.
Thank you, I also agree with your insight, we seem to be in line.... I dislike this self and society perpetuated racism when discussing the so called black issue, and why do I call it racism? Mainly because it is. For a long time now blacks have perpetuated the one person represents the many (when discussing blacks) as much as the wider society has. During the fifties and sixties if a black person made it on television calls would ring through black communities to turn to channel five or six, “black person”. For a long time if a violent act was discussed the inevitable question in many black communities would be the perpetuators color. This whole preoccupation of making the “race” look good or represent the race was the precursor to what occurs today.
In my opinion this focus was due to self hatred and doubt. In a way this doubt goes back to the OP’s opening statement about appearing culturally white. I believe that many inner city blacks prescribe to thug culture because they fear outliers. Blacks in this sense have accepted the moniker of the whole rather than the individual, consequently they have invented new black identifiers. Individuality and uniqueness must be squashed and eradicated. To state however that this phenomenon pervades the whole of black society is simplistic and only fuels this cyclical arrangement.
It's all well and good you've found someone to commiserate with, but if the solutions lie just above you, how will you ever get them if those holding that knowledge aren't in your commiserate community?
You're getting warmer but you're still in habits of your own. America is predicated on a system of representation. How that system has been abused is entirely in the minds of the people. How many times in your life have you lent creedence to BS? No one is immune. So what makes you believe whites are mysteriously above those same pitfalls?
This entire thread is trying to examine an aspect of 'black community'. No one said ALL blacks are in jail. We're trying to focus on those who fell behind in an attempt to LIFT THEM but in the minds of many of you, even the act of examining it is feeding a stereotype designed to put a boot on their head. So I ask, what makes blacks believe they're above all criticism? I've seen that in the south too, unfortunately. They'd rather sweep the uglies under a rug and ride on false bravado for self esteem. They, like blacks, are actually better than all that. They do themselves a disservice every time and they're convinced I hate them for pointing it out. It's impolite to point at the knife sticking out of someones head. HOW DARE YOU TRY TO STEAL MY TUMOR!!!
What does it matter? The effect on those who are discriminated against is all the same.
It matters if the discrimination is the result of racism or bias.
If it's rooted in racism, it can lead to domination.
If it's rooted in bias, preconceived stereotypes and/or colorism, this is often the result of ignorance and can be corrected. There are a lot more biased people than racists, IMO, and I find that many skin color biased people are willing to open their minds and learn. Maybe not around here though.
This question is a perfect example of how and why this country is racially divided today. The question should be how do we cure underachievment. Why do people always feel they have to separate other people into racial groups? This defeats trhe purpose of racial harmony.
All groups of people need to work together to solve the problems of the community without an eye toward racial divisions. It is these very divisive actions that feed the ugly monster of racial hatred and racial bias.
MLK so eloquently stated that people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin...We have seemed to forgot his healing words and ideas.
I tend to agree to a point, but again, I diverge at the obvious disparities observed among the races. For example, take the SAT rankings for the state of Maryland. At the top of the list are predominantly white public high schools and private schools. At the bottom are predominantly black public schools. Before we point to the fact that some of those schools are inner-city and house economically deprived, I also want to point out that several of those schools are in Prince George's County, supposedly the "richest" predominantly black county in the nation. Yet, their public schools have some of the lowest SAT scores in the state. Same goes for the state administered HSA exam.
Need more? Look at the state of New Jersey. Same issue. Predominantly black non inner-city highschools like Willingboro and Plainfield are among the lower ranking schools. Keep in mind that these high schools are in districts that are middle class. Yet there is still the glaring disparity that makes the case for labeling it a "black" underachievement issue, and certainly not a class issue. The trend is apparent in several other states as well.
I believe my ideas would not be looked at as "judgemental" or feeding racial bias if they were more patronizing. In fact, my "solutions" to the issue involve diminishing our own racially divisive idealogy that still renders us (blacks) separate from the others in this country. I wish I could make my observations through a gray lens; it would be more than ideal, but my experiences lead me to belive that there are certain issues that are plaguing the black community at a far higher rate than our counterparts.
One need only look at the relative success of recent African immigrant groups to see how native blacks might have fared absent the legacy of the hardships that uniquely shaped their experience in this country, their numbers and length of stay notwithstanding.
When people make statements like this, it perpetuates Black stereotypes.
My husband was raised in Mississippi in the 60s. His father died when he was young. His mother never remarried and raised her children on her own without assistance even though they were poor - although she did have an extended family support system.
His high school counselor told him he wouldn't get into a particular university, but he did on merit, worked his way and went on to med school. So did his brother.
So instead of perpetuating negative stereotypes, why not look for the reasons why some Blacks don't fit your legacy stereotype.
When people make statements like this, it perpetuates Black stereotypes.
My husband was raised in Mississippi in the 60s. His father died when he was young. His mother never remarried and raised her children on her own without assistance even though they were poor - although she did have an extended family support system.
His high school counselor told him he wouldn't get into a particular university, but he did on merit, worked his way and went on to med school. So did his brother.
So instead of perpetuating negative stereotypes, why not look for the reasons why some Blacks don't fit your legacy stereotype.
the op and the topic were not about the medical surgeon who is african american.
it was about the millions of pants down 9mm that are not touching the eddy murphy fantasy. its not happening.
its not about your success story (a good one), a 1 in a million story, its about the elephant standing in the living room detroit new orleans, memphis you know, the elephant.
the op and the topic were not about the medical surgeon who is african american.
it was about the millions of pants down 9mm that are not touching the eddy murphy fantasy. its not happening.
its not about your success story (a good one), a 1 in a million story, its about the elephant standing in the living room detroit new orleans, memphis you know, the elephant.
How is it not related? Many Blacks are successful. I'm saying why aren't you looking at the reasons why some make it, some don't?
How can you determine why some don't if you don't know why some do?
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