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Wow *shaking head* this thread has been really educational in spite of it's dubious origins. I find it amazing (but not shocking) that the thing that people think is MOST holding back black people is a victim mentality. Absolutely amazing. I won't even waste the keystrokes explaining to you that this is more of a projection of bias than reality but I will note one last piece of irony.
Some of you mentioned that education was the key, and to work hard, and to not make excuses, and not to subscribe to a sense of victimhood. That black people don't have any role models anymore. And so I thought to myself, who is someone that got an education, worked hard, didn't make excuses, didn't think of himself of a victim that black people could look up to...
...oh yeah Barack Obama.
And we see how you characterize him daily. It is amazing that the hypocrisy on this message board doesn't literally choke some of you out.
To the above post, then what do you call someone who hates another from a different race for reasons other than feeling superior?
Hating for the sake of race is racism. Period. Superiority plays into it, I'm sure, but it's not the only factor.
This thread is very interesting. It reminds me of something my (asian immigrant) mother said one time. She once wondered aloud why it is the blacks of this country, who have been here much longer and have had the opportunity to a. learn the language and b. create social networks, have not been able to advance themselves as much as asian people who basically come here alone and with nothing and nobody to help them out (and often with limited english).
We see some asian communities and support (the most obvious being Chinatowns, etc), but more spread out over the country, that is a newer creation and not the experience of my asian friends or our immediate family.
I think that would be called "bigotry". Generally, but not exclusively, people who hate blacks also hates Jews and other groups.
However, the biggest problem with your reasoning is that in your mind....Racism = Hate = Emotions. Racism is about rationalizations more than emotions. In fact, as I have argued before, many racist are "Nice people" and not filled with hate at all. Follow me here. Adults feel that 7 year olds are inferior to adults intellectually, physically and in many ways. However, does this mean that adults HATE 7 year olds? People also LOVE their pets and people see pets as INFERIOR. Thus, seeing an entity as inferior has no natural correlation with HATE, but it does impact how you TREAT the entity that you feel is inferior. For example, you would not agree that a 7 year old should be allowed to do certain things and go certain places. Blacks being viewed as Inferior, is why when we have "good jobs" its often viewed to be the result of Affirmative Action and that we have the job ONLY because a more qualified (superior) white person did not get the job when he or she should have.
Hate is something that manifest in EXTREME cases of racism....but it is not the general rule of racism.
Wow *shaking head* this thread has been really educational in spite of it's dubious origins. I find it amazing (but not shocking) that the thing that people think is MOST holding back black people is a victim mentality. Absolutely amazing. I won't even waste the keystrokes explaining to you that this is more of a projection of bias than reality but I will note one last piece of irony.
Some of you mentioned that education was the key, and to work hard, and to not make excuses, and not to subscribe to a sense of victimhood. That black people don't have any role models anymore. And so I thought to myself, who is someone that got an education, worked hard, didn't make excuses, didn't think of himself of a victim that black people could look up to...
...oh yeah Barack Obama.
And we see how you characterize him daily. It is amazing that the hypocrisy on this message board doesn't literally choke some of you out.
I think that would be called "bigotry". Generally, but not exclusively, people who hate blacks also hates Jews and other groups.
However, the biggest problem with your reasoning is that in your mind....Racism = Hate = Emotions. Racism is about rationalizations more than emotions. In fact, as I have argued before, many racist are "Nice people" and not filled with hate at all. Follow me here. Adults feel that 7 year olds are inferior to adults intellectually, physically and in many ways. However, does this mean that adults HATE 7 year olds? People also LOVE their pets and people see pets as INFERIOR. Thus, seeing an entity as inferior has no natural correlation with HATE, but it does impact how you TREAT the entity that you feel is inferior. For example, you would not agree that a 7 year old should be allowed to do certain things and go certain places. Blacks being viewed as Inferior, is why when we have "good jobs" its often viewed to be the result of Affirmative Action and that we have the job ONLY because a more qualified (superior) white person did not get the job when he or she should have.
Hate is something that manifest in EXTREME cases of racism....but it is not the general rule of racism.
I guess I had trouble understanding your first point and somewhat disagree with your examples stated here because I don't see myself as superior to the 7 year old or the pets. That's not how I structure the relationships or how I see myself with respect to other people or animals
You don't let a 7 year-old do things because they're not prepared to do them. And some 7 year-olds are more proficient or capable at some tasks than another person who is 30.
However, I have enough insight to admit I have racial prejudices based on personal experience with many members of a particular race (not black) - and it's not stemming from superiority; rather, it's stemming from a disagreement and disconnect in cultures and values.
Wow *shaking head* this thread has been really educational in spite of it's dubious origins. I find it amazing (but not shocking) that the thing that people think is MOST holding back black people is a victim mentality. Absolutely amazing. I won't even waste the keystrokes explaining to you that this is more of a projection of bias than reality but I will note one last piece of irony.
Some of you mentioned that education was the key, and to work hard, and to not make excuses, and not to subscribe to a sense of victimhood. That black people don't have any role models anymore. And so I thought to myself, who is someone that got an education, worked hard, didn't make excuses, didn't think of himself of a victim that black people could look up to...
...oh yeah Barack Obama.
And we see how you characterize him daily. It is amazing that the hypocrisy on this message board doesn't literally choke some of you out.
Didn't exactly come from the ghetto and was also a recipient of the benefits of affirmative action. Now being used as a politically correct puppet. Hardly my superhero.
Wow *shaking head* this thread has been really educational in spite of it's dubious origins. I find it amazing (but not shocking) that the thing that people think is MOST holding back black people is a victim mentality. Absolutely amazing. I won't even waste the keystrokes explaining to you that this is more of a projection of bias than reality but I will note one last piece of irony.
Some of you mentioned that education was the key, and to work hard, and to not make excuses, and not to subscribe to a sense of victimhood. That black people don't have any role models anymore. And so I thought to myself, who is someone that got an education, worked hard, didn't make excuses, didn't think of himself of a victim that black people could look up to...
...oh yeah Barack Obama.
And we see how you characterize him daily. It is amazing that the hypocrisy on this message board doesn't literally choke some of you out.
After reading this whole thread, this is the only post I really want to respond to. I find it very interesting.
I, like a lot of white people, am actually torn about President Obama. I didn't vote for him, I disagree with most of his policies and I feel he was underqualified for this job.
However, when he won, I did get a little thrill over the fact that we have our first black President. I was genuinely happy for him and for all black Americans.
I will continue to argue against his policies, but I do think he is a good role model for the young black people.
Like some others, I wonder why your title singles out black underachievement? Every race in this country has their fair share of underachievers, misfits, deviants, etc. Why is the stereotype of the lazy Black constantly perpetuated?
I think that a lot of the problem comes when many confuse race with socioeconomic position when discussing these issues. Do you think that blacks in suburban areas experience the same levels of opportunity as those who live in low-income areas? Do you think the interest in education is the same? Will their home life be the same? Will their personal values be the same? Will their role models be the same? NO….so to brush all blacks with the same brush is pretty narrow-minded. To suggest that blacks find academic achievement, and “thinking outside of the box” as “white things” is pretty asinine.
I grew up in a low-income housing area in SE, DC..two doors down from a crack house. During the first 6-7 years of my life, we couldn’t go outside to play because drug needles littered the grass….. I knew black kids in the ghetto who couldn’t care less about learning, were criminal-minded and continued the cycle of poverty. I also knew many who had pride in doing well in school, loved to read, enjoyed writing and wanted a better life for themselves and their family. I know that life because I’ve lived that life. I don’t know about the values that were instilled in middle class black kids because I didn’t live that life. I can’t purport to know what their family found important and what obstacles they encountered in their life. It’s interesting (and annoying) to me to see the many people who offer criticism/analysis when they are, themselves, unfamiliar and ignorant about the many things that are that “group’s” reality.
Like some others, I wonder why your title singles out black underachievement? Every race in this country has their fair share of underachievers, misfits, deviants, etc. Why is the stereotype of the lazy Black constantly perpetuated?
I think that a lot of the problem comes when many confuse race with socioeconomic position when discussing these issues. Do you think that blacks in suburban areas experience the same levels of opportunity as those who live in low-income areas? Do you think the interest in education is the same? Will their home life be the same? Will their personal values be the same? Will their role models be the same? NO….so to brush all blacks with the same brush is pretty narrow-minded. To suggest that blacks find academic achievement, and “thinking outside of the box” as “white things” is pretty asinine.
I grew up in a low-income housing area in SE, DC..two doors down from a crack house. During the first 6-7 years of my life, we couldn’t go outside to play because drug needles littered the grass….. I knew black kids in the ghetto who couldn’t care less about learning, were criminal-minded and continued the cycle of poverty. I also knew many who had pride in doing well in school, loved to read, enjoyed writing and wanted a better life for themselves and their family. I know that life because I’ve lived that life. I don’t know about the values that were instilled in middle class black kids because I didn’t live that life. I can’t purport to know what their family found important and what obstacles they encountered in their life. It’s interesting (and annoying) to me to see the many people who offer criticism/analysis when they are, themselves, unfamiliar and ignorant about the many things that are that “group’s” reality.
yes lots of people run red lights and get DWI.
but 10% of their young men are not in jail.
when my dirty laundry is all over the floor 24/7 i dont need to accuse mama of sterotyping and judgemental behavior. i need to pick up those dirty socks.
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very good point.
