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Old 07-30-2010, 02:38 PM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,911,642 times
Reputation: 9252

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Hey, let's throw parking violators in prison. They broke the law. Some of them have been doing it for years and the tickets didn't stop them. We got all this space, let's use it.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:59 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,032,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metye7 View Post
but the gangs didnt go away when prohibition was repealed, they moved into other criminal activity. Decriminalizing drugs wont stop the street gangs of today, they will just switch to different criminal activities.
The end of prohibition was a major blow to the underground black market, including the mafia. You're right, they didn't all disappear. But there are many violent dealings that are strictly due to criminalization, and would be gone if drugs were sold in legitimate taxpaying businesses rather than by violent black market thugs.

But the overall point, in line with the OP, is that the main reason why our prison systems are so overcrowded is because we lock up people for stupid sh*t, like possession of personal property. And so we end up letting violent offenders out early to make room for the weekend pot smoker who has a few plants in his closet.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:21 PM
 
46,961 posts, read 25,998,208 times
Reputation: 29449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Are you suggesting that narcotics be sold on the open market with storefronts and cash registers?
Works in Amsterdam. Not saying that what works in Amsterdam must necessarily work all over, but its a data point, at least.

(Last I was there, a colleague from Britain - who partook of neither alcohol nor cannabis - commented on the notable absence of fistfights and broken beer glasses in the street.)

Personally, I think some narcotics should be controlled closely. Some psychedelics can trigger psychotic episodes in some individuals, and there's no way of knowing ahead of time. But cannabis? Meh. Not my (dime) bag, but it doesn't break my bones nor pick my pocket.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Chicago
313 posts, read 406,815 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Works in Amsterdam. Not saying that what works in Amsterdam must necessarily work all over, but its a data point, at least.

(Last I was there, a colleague from Britain - who partook of neither alcohol nor cannabis - commented on the notable absence of fistfights and broken beer glasses in the street.)

Personally, I think some narcotics should be controlled closely. Some psychedelics can trigger psychotic episodes in some individuals, and there's no way of knowing ahead of time. But cannabis? Meh. Not my (dime) bag, but it doesn't break my bones nor pick my pocket.
But Amsterdam has one of the highest crime rates in all of holland, and their murder rate is rising increasingly fast. It also has a very high poverty/welfare problem.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:38 PM
 
46,961 posts, read 25,998,208 times
Reputation: 29449
Quote:
Originally Posted by metye7 View Post
But Amsterdam has one of the highest crime rates in all of holland, and their murder rate is rising increasingly fast. It also has a very high poverty/welfare problem.
I suspect those would be big city problems, rather than being related to easily available pot.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,744,889 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
It's time to quit playing footsies with criminals.

No more slaps on the wrist. No more "rehabilitation" bullcrap.

No discretionary power for judges to reduce sentences. No early release for "good behavior."

Hard time. That's what you get for breaking the law. No counseling. No prayer rugs. Just you and the walls and the bars to sort out your mess.

Harsher sentences for every stripe of felon is what we need. Very harsh. The fear of never seeing freedom again kind of harsh.

Stop funding non-sensical studies on college kids drinking beer and having unprotected sex in Brazil. Use that money to build more prisons. Build them now. And when those fill up. Build more. Eventually one of two things will happen: Criminals will finally get the message, or our streets will be safer and free from the local recidivist with his eye on your property or your loved ones.
Sorry, but I think you are 180 degrees out. We need to do exactly the opposite of what you suggest.

Punishment in the US is way out of line and leads the entire world. Yet, studies show harsh punishment is not a deterrent.

We really should fee at least 50% of our jail population and reduce jailers and costs.

Here are two articles from "The Economist" that you should read;

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Crime and punishment in America: Rough justice | The Economist

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Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
313 posts, read 406,815 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I suspect those would be big city problems, rather than being related to easily available pot.
I will agree, but on the same hand, it shows that just because pot is legal, doesnt mean crime rate and violence will drop accordingly.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:45 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,348,515 times
Reputation: 11538
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Where did the criminals go?
Michigan has Truth in Sentencing so they have to do their minimum.

After that some are paroled, some out on tethers at home.

The rest are "racked, stacked and packed".

Eight to a four person cell.

Some in dorms in pole buildings.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:47 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,924,929 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Sorry, but I think you are 180 degrees out. We need to do exactly the opposite of what you suggest.

Punishment in the US is way out of line and leads the entire world. Yet, studies show harsh punishment is not a deterrent.

We really should fee at least 50% of our jail population and reduce jailers and costs.

Here are two articles from "The Economist" that you should read;

[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
Crime and punishment in America: Rough justice | The Economist

[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]

Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
I agree ( and I have read the articles).

We are already "tough on crime". Its about time we got "smart about crime" too.

We have too many vague laws. We criminalize too many things. We take discretion away from judges which leads to absurd and unfair sentences. We have people in jails - costing the taxpayer a small fortune - who should be outside paying their debt through community service. We penalize felons once they leave jail so that the only way they can live is to commit more crimes.

None of the above is smart. It isn't even tough. Its just stupid.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,744,889 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I agree ( and I have read the articles).

We are already "tough on crime". Its about time we got "smart about crime" too.

We have too many vague laws. We criminalize too many things. We take discretion away from judges which leads to absurd and unfair sentences. We have people in jails - costing the taxpayer a small fortune - who should be outside paying their debt through community service. We penalize felons once they leave jail so that the only way they can live is to commit more crimes.

None of the above is smart. It isn't even tough. Its just stupid.

We could make a big dent in our deficit by legalizing things that our government should not be controlling. Government should not have the power to tell me what I eat, drink or smoke.

We should immediately legalize all drugs, gambling and prostitution. We could reduce our police force by 50%, boost tax revenue and stop ruining thousands of productive lives every year.
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