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I'm a devout Christian, but that doesn't mean I think that evolution, the foundation of modern biology, is incompatible with my faith. I'm also confused how "leftists" are being brought into a discussion of supporting or not supporting science. Saying that 75% of people believe in a creator is very different than saying that 75% of people don't accept evolution as a credible scientific theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
Well said evolution is accepted amongst both conservatives and liberals only a few fundmentalist christians have it hard to accept evolution´.
Americans most likely to believe in only evolution are liberals (36 percent), those who rarely or never attend religious services (25 percent), and those with a college degree or higher (24 percent).
White evangelicals (77 percent), weekly churchgoers (74 percent) and conservatives (64 percent), are mostly likely to say God created humans in their present form.
I have a hard time with the "weekly churchgoers" category. Many of the regulars in my church do believe in evolution, to the best of my knowledge. That kind of makes me wonder how the questions were asked.
Recently there's been a wave of threads mocking Christians who believe in creationism or intelligent design, utilizing the usual tactics of the leftist playbook, calling us dumb, ignorant, "against science", etc; yet according to all polls over 75% of Americans believe that a creator was involved in the formation of the earth. The irony is no one was there so it's faith either way. I happen to believe that it takes a lot more faith to believe that earth was created out of random coincidental happenstance as opposed to the hand of a brilliant creator. Leftists, why do you love evolution so much?
There are a few things with wrong with your opening post.
1) While I wouldn't call all Creationists stupid (I've meet several rather intelligent ones; much to my surprise). I would call the vast majority of them unimaginative and ignorant (often willfully so).
2) It does not matter if everyone on Earth is a Creationist or if no one on Earth is a Creationist. Facts are facts and no amount a belief and disbelief will ever change that.
3) Even many people who believe that God was involved in some stages of the creation of life aren't necessarily Creationists or Intelligent Design believers. For instance the Catholic Church and most Mainline Protestant churches believe in Evolution, but also state something along the lines of "God works through Evolution" or that God creates lifeforms at different periods of time as opposed to "The ancient Israelites regularly had to flee from Velociraptors".
4) There is a huge amount of evidence to support Evolution. Things like geology, the fossil record, genetic evidence, and the fact that he have vestigial (and near vestigial) organs left in order bodies. That is not even the tip of the iceberg that is the tip of the tip of the tip. Plus we have seen microorganisms evolve and adapt before our very eyes in the laboratory. That sorta blows a hole in the "Everything is just how God created it and will never change" thing.
However, I will not delve too deeply into direct scientific debate since Evolution is not an issue I can give proper justice. It has been too long since I have studied the nitty-gritty of the theory and I'll leave that to those more knowledgeable than myself.
5) Why do love Creation so much? I mean if God created all life on Earth, he created a lot of horrible and strange things as well. That means that God not only created people and all the cute animals, but he created all the diseases and parasites as well.
God created the Rabies bacterium that destroys the nervous system of infected animals and people in an extremely painful manner. Oh, it also has a survival rate of 0%. God created the Ebola virus which liquefies the internal organs, kills up to 93% if the infected, and leaves that majority of survivors blind and brain damaged. God created the screwfly maggot which eats the flesh of warm-blooded animals, including people, often to the point of death.
God sounds less like a benevolent creator out of the Bible and more like one of H.P. Lovecraft's Old Ones.
6) I would hardly call much of Creation brilliant. Even if we accept much of the above as God's handiwork, we can accept that he/she/it might not necessarily care about suffering, but is not exactly stupid.
However, that does not explain things like birth defects and genetic diseases. Bacteria, viruses, and parasites are one thing (maybe God just might value their existence just as much), but flukes in genetic codes and improper development in the womb are another. That means that God creates children born with their heart outside of their body and stillborn babies born without a head. God created the genes that gave people Tay-Sachs disease which causes what appears to healthy children to never make it to their 5th birthday. He also makes some people really ugly and some people really short and some people colorblind and some people retarded and some people crippled.
That really doesn't seem like the work of brilliant creator nor of a mad scientist, but rather someone who sorta sucks at his job.
We do have an idea of how it began, and as our technical expertise grows that idea becomes more and more refined. Could our ancestors thousands of years ago have grasped how lightning occurred or the harvest grew? No, so they attributed it to divine act. Just because we can't yet explain something by science doesn't mean that the explanation is beyond our reach and that Goddidit is a valid argument.
That is however beside the point, which is that abiogenesis and evolution are separate concepts. Thus, "lol if evalushun is tru then what did the first lyfe evolve frum" is not a valid argument.
There are a few things with wrong with your opening post.
1) While I wouldn't call all Creationists stupid (I've meet several rather intelligent ones; much to my surprise). I would call the vast majority of them unimaginative and ignorant (often willfully so).
2) It does not matter if everyone on Earth is a Creationist or if no one on Earth is a Creationist. Facts are facts and no amount a belief and disbelief will ever change that.
3) Even many people who believe that God was involved in some stages of the creation of life aren't necessarily Creationists or Intelligent Design believers. For instance the Catholic Church and most Mainline Protestant churches believe in Evolution, but also state something along the lines of "God works through Evolution" or that God creates lifeforms at different periods of time as opposed to "The ancient Israelites regularly had to flee from Velociraptors".
4) There is a huge amount of evidence to support Evolution. Things like geology, the fossil record, genetic evidence, and the fact that he have vestigial (and near vestigial) organs left in order bodies. That is not even the tip of the iceberg that is the tip of the tip of the tip. Plus we have seen microorganisms evolve and adapt before our very eyes in the laboratory. That sorta blows a hole in the "Everything is just how God created it and will never change" thing.
However, I will not delve too deeply into direct scientific debate since Evolution is not an issue I can give proper justice. It has been too long since I have studied the nitty-gritty of the theory and I'll leave that to those more knowledgeable than myself.
5) Why do love Creation so much? I mean if God created all life on Earth, he created a lot of horrible and strange things as well. That means that God not only created people and all the cute animals, but he created all the diseases and parasites as well.
God created the Rabies bacterium that destroys the nervous system of infected animals and people in an extremely painful manner. Oh, it also has a survival rate of 0%. God created the Ebola virus which liquefies the internal organs, kills up to 93% if the infected, and leaves that majority of survivors blind and brain damaged. God created the screwfly maggot which eats the flesh of warm-blooded animals, including people, often to the point of death.
God sounds less like a benevolent creator out of the Bible and more like one of H.P. Lovecraft's Old Ones.
6) I would hardly call much of Creation brilliant. Even if we accept much of the above as God's handiwork, we can accept that he/she/it might not necessarily care about suffering, but is not exactly stupid.
However, that does not explain things like birth defects and genetic diseases. Bacteria, viruses, and parasites are one thing (maybe God just might value their existence just as much), but flukes in genetic codes and improper development in the womb are another. That means that God creates children born with their heart outside of their body and stillborn babies born without a head. God created the genes that gave people Tay-Sachs disease which causes what appears to healthy children to never make it to their 5th birthday. He also makes some people really ugly and some people really short and some people colorblind and some people retarded and some people crippled.
That really doesn't seem like the work of brilliant creator nor of a mad scientist, but rather someone who sorta sucks at his job.
Does the clay pot tell the potter how to do his job?
It's not just evolution, it's also the heliocentric theory, the theory of gravity, the Periodic table of elements, and the round earth theory. Such nonsense.
What ? Creationism has their own teachings for gravity and their own definition of the table of elements ?
...and what if we have a few thousand years to go before we are at he level of the monkeys?
LOL I think you are being optimistic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
Makes you wonder if some creatures on this earth have to change in different ways to adapt to changes. Some creatures need to adapt in a physical or biological way, maybe we adapt in an intellectual way.
Which is in essence evolution.
The reason I posted the articles on the isolated island lizards evolving not just into a new physical form, but also in their behavior. It has stunned the scientific community because people believed that a higher order animal such as a reptile (as compared to say a bacterium or virus) could evolve so quickly. This has caused science to reexamine most of its current models in things ranging from adaptive behavior to genetics.
The OP asked why the love of evolution, and when offered factual and empirical proof of evolution taking place, they seem to just dismiss it.
To Wapasha in response to your post:I'm not the one claiming I'm the smart one, and anyone who does not think like me is a freaking retard.
Sorry if I'm direct.
I never claimed I was smart in my initial post, I also never claimed that anyone who didn't think like me is a freaking retard. You however, did. You are not being direct, you are being rude & also insulting me by inferring that I am a pompous ass. I'm wondering, is there something on this forum that says people are not allowed to insult each other, or maybe it's personally attack? I'll have to check that out.
Since you seem to have a problem with being respectful in your posts & instead have to resort to insulting, I doubt you can be taken seriously on this forum. But while we're here, can you explain to me why some people can easily believe in a person in the sky who made the entire universe yet can't grasp the concept of evolution? They can believe in an almight being who lords over all & sundry, answers their prayers, made the world but they can't believe in evolution. Is there a reason for that? And do you think you could answer in a respectful manner instead of like an exasperated child? Thank you.
The trouble comes in when your religion tells you that you can grow a human out of the ground by planting their bones (Muslims), that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and Humans have existed since the 6th day (All Abrahamic religions), etc.
The fact is, holy books are wrong, how could they not be? My science books from 8th grade are probably wrong on 50% of the things that were in them then.
When we start to understand that not everything in your holy book was written for the literal wording, and that most of it was written in a parable form for lessons and moral teaching, then we can move forward as a species.
Many Christians already understand this. Why someone would want to dismiss the evidence in favor of reducing God to a Merlin-the-magician type of being is beyond me.
Evolution is fascinating.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 10-16-2010 at 09:53 AM..
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