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Old 11-13-2010, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,767 posts, read 5,018,098 times
Reputation: 2063

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Believe it because it's true.




As far as your complaints about jobs going overseas if a manufacturer cannot produce things that can compete against the global market here in the US because of the higher costs associated with regulations, higher labor costs and taxes just to name a few they have the choice of moving offshore or going bankrupt. Take your pick.

The middle class didn't offer up their jobs, they were transferred overseas to escape regulations (many recalls from China, huh?), because they could pay the lowest wages possible, and they could avoid U.S. taxes more easily. If sending one's business to another country to avoid paying American workers a decent wage with cost of living increases is seen as acceptable, and selling shoddy or unsafe products isn't a problem, I'd say that business owner has no idea what it means to be an American.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:30 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,080,948 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
The middle class didn't offer up their jobs,
Yes they have because every time they walk into Wally World they want the cheapest prices they can possibly find. Are you willing to pay $270 for pair a boots like I just did?
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:31 AM
 
15,912 posts, read 20,208,631 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
It was the buying power of the American worker that built this country. When the average American worker could afford to buy what he was manufacturing was when the country prospered and built suburbia.
The average American can still afford to buy things, the only difference is they are manufactured overseas.

Quote:
There would have been no rich Americans without the middle class.
Mox nix, there would be no middle class without the rich. Take away the rich that were born with silver spoons in their mouths, look at the people who have gotten fabulously wealthy because of the corporations they built, or the fabulously wealthy because of the sport they play and train hard at. Now look at the 48% of Americans that pay

In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.
Tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year.
The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners — households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 — paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.
The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

Half of Americans pay no federal income tax - Business - Personal finance - Tax Tactics - msnbc.com

Quote:
Now with outsourcing, the demonizing of labor unions and tax breaks for companies that relocate, we are in deep dung.
While you're at it also mention some of the reasons corporations went overseas, like cheap labor, no EPA restrictions, working conditions are not mandated by the government..... There is no holding back globalization my friend. Oh, and BTW, in case you don't know, America is a capitalist society....

Quote:
The rich will not need the Americans to purchase the goods anymore as China and India become their new customers. Their lifestyles are improving and their infrastrucure is surpassing ours.
The average full time wage in America is $49,483.00 per year, China's average is $896.00 per year....

You talk about elitist rich?, China has the same problem:

Dr. Cheng said: “’WWR’ exposes a basic problem. It is that China’s so-called development completely ignores social justice. It favors or tends to protect the interests of an elite group."

Mr. Liu asserts that what the Chinese people want is simply to be treated justly. “[Those] who work hard [should] earn more, but what’s happening now? Many laborers in China, especially some migrant and rural workers, perform extremely hard labor, yet their wages are very low.”

On the other hand, the wages of state civil servants and employees of state-owned companies and monopolies increase at an alarming rate. Moreover, these workers also get generous benefits while there is no social security system to maintain the low-income class, Cheng said.

China's Minimum Wage One of the Lowest in the World | China | Epoch Times

China's poor:


India's poor:


America's poor:


Quote:
We are being sold out by right wing Mafia in bed with Wall Street banksters and big corporations. The disparity between the haves and have nots has been by design. The United States of America was never intended to be an oligarchy.
So now there is a right wing mafia that implies there is a middle of the road mafia and a left wing mafia. There are greedy men and women linked to in all societies, and in all levels of their societies.



aaahhh the conspiracy theorists, ya gotta love 'em.

Last edited by plwhit; 11-13-2010 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
Don't whine and complain..we did it to ourselves. We turned from a producer nation to a consumer nation. Consumer nations do not move ahead when all they do is buy stuff and accumulate debt.

Look at India and China...growing producer nations with 8-9% GDP growth. That's used to be us but over the past 40 years various industries have moved offshore.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:04 AM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,950,925 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Yes they have because every time they walk into Wally World they want the cheapest prices they can possibly find. Are you willing to pay $270 for pair a boots like I just did?

This is an unrealistic view. Finding cheap prices is not because of greed, it's because it's what they can afford. Did you click any of the links in the OP? Try approaching this with an open mind. The facts provided clearly show that when income equality is on the scale that it is today, our economy does not do well. It hasn't worked well for other countries either (e.g. the French Revolution). What will you say next, "let them eat cake?"
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
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Greed, corruption and power eventually overtake any economic system in place.
When the scales tip too far a correction will happen. Then the cycle starts over again.
World powers shift as well. The US wasn't always #1.

History is full of examples. But of course it won't happen to us, will it ?
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:11 AM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,950,925 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Don't whine and complain..we did it to ourselves. We turned from a producer nation to a consumer nation. Consumer nations do not move ahead when all they do is buy stuff and accumulate debt.

Look at India and China...growing producer nations with 8-9% GDP growth. That's used to be us but over the past 40 years various industries have moved offshore.
I think that was the point. Not moving ahead but it is not because of Liberal policies or government interference. It is because of greed and growing income inequality. Globalization plays a role but look at the big picture The dollars the middle class bring home are not valued the way they were before. Economic growth among the middle class has slowed down while income growth among the rich has skyrocketed, concentrating most of the income earned to a small portion of the population. People go into debt to maintain a lifestyle that was once obtainable with hard work. I see that no one disputing this has actually refuting any of the facts here. I suppose that it is a mere conincidence that the last time the distribution of wealth was skewed like this, the market crashed and we got the Great Depression. It was bad then, and bad now.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease View Post
I think that was the point. Not moving ahead but it is not because of Liberal policies or government interference. It is because of greed and growing income inequality. Globalization plays a role but look at the big picture The dollars the middle class bring home are not valued the way they were before. Economic growth among the middle class has slowed down while income growth among the rich has skyrocketed, concentrating most of the income earned to a small portion of the population. People go into debt to maintain a lifestyle that was once obtainable with hard work. I see that no one disputing this has actually refuting any of the facts here. I suppose that it is a mere conincidence that the last time the distribution of wealth was skewed like this, the market crashed and we got the Great Depression. It was bad then, and bad now.
My post #16 was saying exactly that.

Read the book "The Fourth Turning". It puts some great perspective on history and looks at history as cycles rather than just linear.
http://www.fourthturning.com/html/history___turnings.html (broken link)
http://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning.../dp/0767900464

There was a great imbalance during the 1920's. By 1934 it had all come crashing down. And then the cycle started all over again.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:25 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,080,948 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease View Post
This is an unrealistic view. Finding cheap prices is not because of greed, it's because it's what they can afford.
Doesn't matter what the reason is, as long as those products can me made more cheaply in another country people are going to continue to buy them and we will continue to lose jobs to overseas manufacturers.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:29 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,480,300 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
I don't believe that you made such a statment. It was the buying power of the American worker that built this country. When the average American worker could afford to buy what he was manufacturing was when the country prospered and built suburbia. There would have been no rich Americans without the middle class. Now with outsourcing, the demonizing of labor unions and tax breaks for companies that relocate, we are in deep dung. The rich will not need the Americans to purchase the goods anymore as China and India become their new customers. Their lifestyles are improving and their infrastrucure is surpassing ours. We are being sold out by right wing Mafia in bed with Wall Street banksters and big corporations. The disparity between the haves and have nots has been by design. The United States of America was never intended to be an oligarchy.
You need to look at the Federal Reserve before you start blaming economic policies of politicians. A dollar in 1913 would be worth $22.01 today. That has nothing to do with tax rates. Also something else to think about is the fact that a dollar has nothing of value. It is a promise to pay for a debt, public or private. The government has promised every man, woman and child to the rest of the world to the tune of $40,000 a piece. Those with the most "money" are the ones with the largest collection of indebtedness notes called dollars.
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