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Let me ask you something and I mean this with the up most respect. How is he your brother? Do you have the same mother?
I get wanting people regardless of race to succeed. I agree with that but you are injecting race into this. That is racist.It is racist to see skin color at all. Its racist to call someone your bother when he really isnt over a person of another race.
I feel that is someone is not a racist they dont see skin tone. They see the human being. That would make every single person on this earth your brother. Not just someone that has the same pigment as you do.
I dont wish a white/Indian person do better then someone else just because they have the same pigment as me.
How are we ever going to get over racism in this country till we all lead by example and all are treated equally by each other? Or till we stop seeing each other as a white, black, brown, tan person.
I think we should treat each and every person the way we ourselves would want to be treated and if we all did that. We'd have a much better world
Let me ask you something and I mean this with the up most respect. How is he your brother? Do you have the same mother?
I get wanting people regardless of race to succeed. I agree with that but you are injecting race into this. That is racist.It is racist to see skin color at all. Its racist to call someone your bother when he really isnt over a person of another race.
I feel that is someone is not a racist they dont see skin tone. They see the human being. That would make every single person on this earth your brother. Not just someone that has the same pigment as you do.
I dont wish a white/Indian person do better then someone else just because they have the same pigment as me.
How are we ever going to get over racism in this country till we all lead by example and all are treated equally by each other? Or till we stop seeing each other as a white, black, brown, tan person.
I think we should treat each and every person the way we ourselves would want to be treated and if we all did that. We'd have a much better world
OK..i usually refuse to explain this stuff to people, but since you asked politely, i'll try to break it down a bit.
We are slightly less than 12% of the population of this country. This means that i can drive whole swaths of this country (and i have many times) and not see a black person. Obviously i see all people as my brothers and sisters, and i said as much a few posts back, but black people are MY PEOPLE!! I'm not a racist for saying that. We suffered through slavery and Jim Crow together, and that helped form a common bond...an important bond. And out of that comes a common American experience that's unique to our people. Common foods, language (slang,really), likes, dislikes, etc...
Here is the thing that you have to keep in mind: during the hard times we were forced to have our own institutions and customs while waiting for further acceptance into the American experience at large. In other words, we had to WAIT for white acceptance. I'm not whining about it, but that's just the truth. But just because whites got to decide when that would be, do we as black people have to jettison our common bonds and institutions just because whites aren't comfortable with it? Hispanics have their bonds, foods, language, etc, but nobody ever complains about their commonality!
Keep in mind, i didn't inject race into this topic...the OP did. Look at the original question? How am i supposed to take that?
Lastly, there is this...you're absolutely right about treating all people the same regardless of race. Who would disagree with that. Hell, my own wife is white...i'm not predisposed to judging people based on race.
I am listening to Vick right now talking about owning a dog, taking care of a dog, giving a dog a good home. I so dont know how I feel about that. He can get a dog when his probation is up.
He said he had no empathy of sympathy for the dogs. How does a person with a soul not have that for a living being? How can a person with a soul not have that when killing a being. That is my problem with him. That is what causes me my biggest problem with forgiving him. I can not grasp how he can not feel that.
OK..i usually refuse to explain this stuff to people, but since you asked politely, i'll try to break it down a bit.
We are slightly less than 12% of the population of this country. This means that i can drive whole swaths of this country (and i have many times) and not see a black person. Obviously i see all people as my brothers and sisters, and i said as much a few posts back, but black people are MY PEOPLE!! I'm not a racist for saying that. We suffered through slavery and Jim Crow together, and that helped form a common bond...an important bond. And out of that comes a common American experience that's unique to our people. Common foods, language (slang,really), likes, dislikes, etc...
Here is the thing that you have to keep in mind: during the hard times we were forced to have our own institutions and customs while waiting for further acceptance into the American experience at large. In other words, we had to WAIT for white acceptance. I'm not whining about it, but that's just the truth. But just because whites got to decide when that would be, do we as black people have to jettison our common bonds and institutions just because whites aren't comfortable with it? Hispanics have their bonds, foods, language, etc, but nobody ever complains about their commonality!
Keep in mind, i didn't inject race into this topic...the OP did. Look at the original question? How am i supposed to take that?
Lastly, there is this...you're absolutely right about treating all people the same regardless of race. Who would disagree with that. Hell, my own wife is white...i'm not predisposed to judging people based on race.
Sorry that you were under the impression I was asking you to explain it to me. I have dated outside my race. My husband is hispanic and black. I get the point or reason.
I am challenging that point and reason. I know that it is the OP that brought race into this but that didnt mean anyone else had to. I have been in this debate on this topic and made many post not once has it been about his race till now. Only because I seen a chance to speak to you as we are now and only because I truly want to end racism in this country.
That is never going to happen till each race ends the racism in their own race
Every race at some point and time experienced hard times thru out their existences.
All I'm saying is dont you think its time that we as a people if we truly want to end racism in this world to stop doing things like calling someone their brother simply because you share a pigment.
My husband is hispanic. No they dont have bonds like that outside of actual family. My husband does not consider someone his brother simply because they are also hispanic. He doesnt give hispanics a pass simply because they are hispanic. He doesnt put a hispanic above anyone else of a certain race.
How do you think we are every going to end racism? Or at least fight it? Lastly shouldnt the human race be your people and not just a select few? That is my point. How do you expect to end racism with that thought process
OK..i usually refuse to explain this stuff to people, but since you asked politely, i'll try to break it down a bit.
We are slightly less than 12% of the population of this country. This means that i can drive whole swaths of this country (and i have many times) and not see a black person. Obviously i see all people as my brothers and sisters, and i said as much a few posts back, but black people are MY PEOPLE!! I'm not a racist for saying that. We suffered through slavery and Jim Crow together, and that helped form a common bond...an important bond. And out of that comes a common American experience that's unique to our people. Common foods, language (slang,really), likes, dislikes, etc...
Here is the thing that you have to keep in mind: during the hard times we were forced to have our own institutions and customs while waiting for further acceptance into the American experience at large. In other words, we had to WAIT for white acceptance. I'm not whining about it, but that's just the truth. But just because whites got to decide when that would be, do we as black people have to jettison our common bonds and institutions just because whites aren't comfortable with it? Hispanics have their bonds, foods, language, etc, but nobody ever complains about their commonality!
Keep in mind, i didn't inject race into this topic...the OP did. Look at the original question? How am i supposed to take that?
Lastly, there is this...you're absolutely right about treating all people the same regardless of race. Who would disagree with that. Hell, my own wife is white...i'm not predisposed to judging people based on race.
I can address what you have said almost perfectly in a post I wrote a few weeks ago.
Black people did indeed wait for white acceptance. Essentially it was called the Civil Rights Revolution. The thing is, for all this to have happened, white folks felt they had to dismiss their own bond because it was so economically dominant, and dismissive of minority needs. So today anything that is considered race oriented is a no-no to most white folks. This includes social clubs, magazines, and even TV networks. For about 40 years that's how it's been with white folks. Like I've said before, my grandmother could not have a White Women's Knitting Club because it is taboo. What's more, most white women would feel uncomfortable even discussing the possiblity of such a thing in today's America. Yet black folks can have these things. It doesn't matter how they got the pass on this cultural right, just that it exists.
Point is, blacks may not understand why white folks begrudge "black stuff", well, the begruding comes as a consequence of a step towards the deracialization of America.
The thing is, there is a general social move towards multiculturalism. In a few decades white folks will also be a minority. So, should white folks be granted their own social clubs and media sources too? The other alternative is to make a conscious effort for all people to move away from things that reinforce racial identity. In the road ahead the choice will likely be one or the other.
DesertDetroiter, I am Jewish. To some extent I consider all Jews my brothers and sisters. That is the ideal. That's what we are supposed to do, what with a shared history of persecution, religion, rituals, etc. But I stop short of standing by a Jew who has committed a heinous crime and brought shame on our people. I stop short of defending him or her just because they are Jewish. Nothing foments antisemitism like that would (just as your position foments anti-black sentiment). If I feel honestly that they are being treated unfairly in criminal proceedings, I would speak up, but I would do that for a black person, hispanic person, Native American, foreigner -- heck, I'd even do it for a Muslim if I really felt they were being treated unfairly. Because moral goodness has to be the highest aspiration, not tribal allegiances. We are supposed to be like God as much as possible and that means treating everyone fairly with an eye toward justice for all. I wouldn't even defend a blood family member if they committed a heinous crime, and I know what I'm talking about because I've actually been in that difficult position.
That is why I find your comments, though somewhat understandable, still objectionable. It doesn't make the world a better place. It doesn't ultimately improve anyone's life, even those you think you are helping. By promoting a sense that one of your own can never do anything bad enough to earn your condemnation, you create divisiveness and distrust, and that's going to come back on your brothers, especially the least of them.
How lame. Switching the topic just because you have nothing else to respond to? And are you insinuating that Black people have similar ideals to those of German citizen/Nazis that followed Hitler and Hitler himself?
I'll take the fall on my basketball knowledge seeing that I rather be successful in academia and in life
And I don't owe you squat to explain my position either since you are disrespectful and dismissing any other opinion other than your own limited and one-sided view
I appreciate the response and great points you make in your rebuttal
However, should having bitter ideals spread by the older generation continue to be accepted in the AA community? There's a fine line between educational history life lessons and implanting seeds of hatred in another person's mind.
And I will agree that racial equality in the world is far from complete, yet based on data collected, the AA community has not dragged itself out of the hold they were placed in. And progress is not really seen, especially when there are so many factors that hinder the potential growth. Care to expand?
I don't have a one sided view on the matter, look at the posts before my first one and then tell me who has one sided views. It seems some people want to make it a crime for supporting Michael Vick and all I'm talking about is perception. As I said I don't support Vick and never will but I can see how some people do.
My Hitler comparison was wrong because anyone that supports facism or Hitler himself should be locked in a gas chamber.
I can address what you have said almost perfectly in a post I wrote a few weeks ago.
Black people did indeed wait for white acceptance. Essentially it was called the Civil Rights Revolution. The thing is, for all this to have happened, white folks felt they had to dismiss their own bond because it was so economically dominant, and dismissive of minority needs. So today anything that is considered race oriented is a no-no to most white folks. This includes social clubs, magazines, and even TV networks. For about 40 years that's how it's been with white folks. Like I've said before, my grandmother could not have a White Women's Knitting Club because it is taboo. What's more, most white women would feel uncomfortable even discussing the possiblity of such a thing in today's America. Yet black folks can have these things. It doesn't matter how they got the pass on this cultural right, just that it exists.
Point is, blacks may not understand why white folks begrudge "black stuff", well, the begruding comes as a consequence of a step towards the deracialization of America.
The thing is, there is a general social move towards multiculturalism. In a few decades white folks will also be a minority. So, should white folks be granted their own social clubs and media sources too? The other alternative is to make a conscious effort for all people to move away from things that reinforce racial identity. In the road ahead the choice will likely be one or the other.
White people will NOT be a minority in a few decades. Helll, they won't be a minority in a few centuries. I don't know where you get that from.
And black folks didn't get a "pass" on anything. We started doing certain things because we HAD to out of necessity.
And still, i have no idea what this has to do with wanting Vick to be a success since he's paid his dues.
. But I stop short of standing by a Jew who has committed a heinous crime and brought shame on our people. I stop short of defending him or her just because they are Jewish. Nothing foments antisemitism like that would (just as your position foments anti-black sentiment).
That is why I find your comments, though somewhat understandable, still objectionable. It doesn't make the world a better place. It doesn't ultimately improve anyone's life, even those you think you are helping. By promoting a sense that one of your own can never do anything bad enough to earn your condemnation, you create divisiveness and distrust, and that's going to come back on your brothers, especially the least of them.
You're not understanding me....i don't care about anti-black sentiment in this case. Vick did his crime, did his time, and is free to resume his life. And i have every right to hope like hell that he does well and cheer for his redemption. If i went around caring about anti-black sentiment all the time, hell, i'd never get anything done. He is my brother...i'm going to wish the best for my brother. If you become anti-black because of itl....then you were anti-black to begin with. I'm not going to lose sleep. And i'm not saying that to be mean, but it's my honest sentiment.
And for you to say that i'm promoting a sense that one of my own can't do anything bad enough to earn my condemnation is one hell of a stretch. That's how YOU want to take it. I said nothing of the kind. We're only talking about Mike Vick here....i didn't say that i'm a supporter of Wayne Williams!! Believe it or not, there are things that black people can do that would earn my eternal scorn, but Vick didn't do it.
As for your threat about things "coming back on my brothers," well, you're free to do as you please.
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