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Old 12-02-2010, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
Reputation: 3954

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Since he'd be outside of time, eternal existence isn't an issue.
That's what we call a "definitional punt."

Unable to win the game through ability, change the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist
I think it takes plenty of faith to believe that we're here by chance with no cause.
Then its a good thing that nobody is proposing that "we're here by chance with no cause."

The universe does not operate by chance. It operates by invariant natural law.

And nothing in the universe has "no cause." That would contradict the cosmological argument... like god does.

 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:52 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,107,555 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by go phillies View Post
Look in the mirror, look out your window. Do you honestly think something as complex as nature and the human body just came about by chance from nothing?
Where did something as complex as on omnipotent God come from?
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,982,324 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaada View Post
who cares what your stupid website says its not fact its opinion.
your not god either so what makes you all right and all knowing??? nothing thats what.
Wow didn't take time to read the website did you? No no no don't study or expand your mind at all. Just keep going to church, read your collection of bronze age fairy tales and talk to your imaginary friend every night. Don't ever attempt to use logic or reason.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,982,324 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Where did something as complex as on omnipotent God come from?
But...but...bu...God exists out of time! So..so...atheism requires more faith!
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:54 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,619,669 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
That's what we call a "definitional punt."

Unable to win the game through ability, change the rules.
Most philosophers would consider it a progression of logic. You should try it. I know it's difficult, but you'll be rewarded for thinking logically.
Quote:
Then its a good thing that nobody is proposing that "we're here by chance with no cause."
Really? What caused you and me to be here, then?
Quote:
The universe does not operate by chance. It operates by invariant natural law.
What caused the invariant natural law to be put into place?
Quote:
And nothing in the universe has "no cause." That would contradict the cosmological argument... like god does.
I agree that there is nothing in this universe that wasn't created...do you?
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,312,275 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Things like the 2nd law of thermodynics, and the expansion of the universe point to it NOT being eternal. The question then is, what caused the universe to exist?
I'm not a physicist, but I think you are misreading the 2nd law. As the universe continues to expand heat will dissipate and matter will cease to exist. But the universe will remain.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:57 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,619,669 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
I'm not a physicist, but I think you are misreading the 2nd law. As the universe continues to expand heat will dissipate and matter will cease to exist. But the universe will remain.
The fact that the heat has not totally dissipated and matter has not ceased to exist proves the universe is not eternal.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,638,087 times
Reputation: 16395
Quote:
Originally Posted by go phillies View Post
You're splitting hairs. Atheism is a FAITH. It takes as much or more FAITH to say there is absolutely no God as it does to say there is a God.

Agnostics have a legitimate argument when they say they don't know one way or the other....but atheists have no way of knowing that there absolutely is no creator. In my opinion, this universe had to start somewhere, something does not come from nothing.
Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.

As an Atheist, I live as though there is no god. Could there be a god or gods? Sure. Is it realistic? From my angle, no. So, no god(s) for me.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by go phillies View Post
Look in the mirror, look out your window. Do you honestly think something as complex as nature and the human body just came about by chance from nothing?
Of course not.

Only theists believe in creation ex nihilo.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 11:00 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,619,669 times
Reputation: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.

As an Atheist, I live as though there is no god. Could there be a god or gods? Sure. Is it realistic? From my angle, no. So, no god(s) for me.
The fact that you actively debate against the existence of God shows that it's a worldview for you. You are't just apathetic to the idea--you actively believe there is not a God.

So your belief is no God.
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