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You praise Paris mean while she had a porno video and was caught with all sorts of drugs and went to jail...sort of. I bet you would not say the same for the Ho down the road, yet she works harder and does not get a TV show, singing career or work on the runway for doing the same
I'm not saying Paris is a person who's social habits should be admired. But her hard work is something that can set a good example for others.
Sure, her name has helped her along, you have no argument from me there. But she did not have to also do any work to have money. She did. Her sister is in the public eye much less and is just as successful, if not more so.
Also, not all rich people have recognizable names (or even just last names). So that point does not really apply to rich people with the exception of celebrities (Bill Gates at this point counts as a celebrity, I'm not just talking about actors and singers, etc. here) and locally known families.
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.
That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.
The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
If by reaping the fruits of ones labor, the results of the application of experience and skills you mean lucky, then you might be on to something. Seize it and market it and you too can be lucky. The equality of the luck is entirely up to yourself.
I've known people most of my life who have been highly successful, through the application of gathered experiences and skills.
I've know people who have had the choice to apply experiences and skills to their advantages but chose instead to satisfy their needs and remain in relative obscurity.
I've had many of the same advantages and connections the above have, but due to some other experiences have delayed my successes. I continue to dream on, but there is no luck involved.
All rational consumers are economists of a sort. How you apply your economic values depends on your own intent.
And to qote rbohm in Post #59
Quote:
and by the way Malkiel there were no magnet schools around when i was growing up in the 60s and 70s.
The Fair Tax doesn't make sense. A simple VAT with sales tax could be done with lower taxes and no gimmicky food rebates or rebates for the poor. Putting a 23% sales tax on products is a turn off.
I dunno, anytime I have to travel to Europe (particularly one of those countries with a VAT *and* sugar taxes eg Denmark, Austria, etc.) and have to plop down 6 bucks for a 20 ounce bottle of soda, I'm quite turned off.
I saw someone post that intelligence has nothing to do with wealth. Truth be told a man makes his own luck by using intelligence. Weer not talking Oppenheimer intelligence were talking business smart. One of the attributes of business smart is not panicking especially when everyone else is.
Often we hear someone say to act rich will get you rich. That is sorta true. However its not act rich it's act like a rich person would. When a rich person only makes a average income he lives with in his means. He doesn't get into debt on a car he can't afford or rack up a $5000 X 4 credit card bill. He doesn't fall into pay day advance loans who if the math is done charge 800% annual interest.
Acting rich doesn't only include being rich it includes getting there.
We do have the inherited wealth and that's OK. When I die I want to leave my earnings to family and it's not wrong for them to benefit. They are a form of success as well and they deserve it. How they handle the gains is their choice. If they make it grow good for them if they lose it all sorry, time to start over.
Yes, but having advantages to begin with made those tools available to me. I went to an excellent public high school (frequently named as among the top 5 in the nation), an excellent university and had parents who were involved and could pay for any remediation I needed. The $800 SAT course raised my score by 200 points. I had a computer available to me at any time since I was little and computers were expensive and scarce. My mother didn't work, so she could spend time with me doing homework or transporting me to the library or other activities.
Among the reasons I acquired the tools for success (besides being a reasonably bright guy) was that my parents had the ability financially to provide me with the tools.
My father grew up very lower middle class in Brooklyn and worked his way thorough city college. Big difference in my experience and his.
What do you do for a living now?
I would not say that my ACT (29) or SAT (1110) scores are what got me into college. Neither did my grades (I had a 3.0...although I did skip a grade plus take honors and AP classes...my problem was lack of motivation in 10th grade which screwed my GPA big time). I wrote good admissions essays, I did around 100 hours of community service (which is how I got my 100% scholarship, coupled with my GPA), etc. Admission into college is not just based on test scores or your GPA. You have to basically be a well-rounded person to get into a good school. Anybody can get into community college, but to get into a good school, you have to prove yourself in more ways than one. I'm sorry but that $800 SAT prep class was probably money better spent elsewhere. And if your parents were paying for you to have all kinds of remediation, you might have chosen to just study better in school so they wouldn't have to pay for that. That was not really YOU doing the work, that was your parents forcing you into something. That's also not luck, though.
Btw, college does not equal success. Success is not always a function of college education.
Tangent: I wonder how these people score on IQ tests, there are lots of "All whats are whos and some whos are wheres. Are all whats wheres?" kind of questions.
Do people who posts these threads ever consider blaming poor money management as a reason of why a lot of people are poorer than they should be?
I know several people who are idiots and spend more on cable television per year than they put into their 401ks or other savings.
this is an excellent point. you wont get rich buying a new car every few years, as well as paying off a mortgage that you cant really afford, and have to use credit cards to get by. and when the tax return comes, if you buy a big screen LCD TV that you cant afford, then you also get what you deserve.
Here's a great comparison of "luck" vs. "success" when it comes to being rich.
Luck: You win the Powerball. There was a study done this past September that showed that people who won the lottery are just as likely, if not moreso, to declare bankruptcy within a certain amount of years (it was either 5 or 8) than those who did not win. Luck got them the money, sure. But it didn't save them from themselves, or their bad decision making and inability to grow true wealth.
Success: People who work hard and start their own businesses, or enter a specialized field (medicine, IT security, law, etc.). I don't care if it's a rich kid like the guy who started Rockstar Energy drinks or a rags-to-riches like Oprah, these people put in 100+ hour weeks getting their businesses off the ground, manage every little detail within their control, put in the blood, sweat, and tears to make their business successful. These people declare bankruptcy at a MUCH lower rate than their peers and are masters at growing true wealth. Larry Ellison, Bill Gates, Phil Knight, John Chambers are shining examples.
The difference between these two groups in terms of not only acquiring wealth, but building it, is not luck. The difference is solid decision making and an insatiable desire to be successful.
Know how I got where I am? While you were out riding bikes in the summer as a kid, my nose was buried in books. When you were riding around in the back of pickup trucks and thinking your whole life was going to be high school football games and parties, my nose was buried in books. When, if you even went to college at all, you dicked around to "find yourself", my nose was buried in books. When you majored in some vocationally worthless study like Liberal Arts or Political Science or 20th Century Women's studies because you wanted to "pursue your passion", my nose was buried in books for a field of substance. While you were slacking off and escaped with a 2.7 GPA, I was graduating Summa C.um Laude from the finest university on the face of this planet. While you were taking the first 40 hour a week, low-ceiling job you could find, I was taking something that consumed my life but paid a bit better. While you were out on Friday nights drinking with your buddies, I was at work. While you were buying a starter home and having kids you could barely afford, I was taking the money I had saved up and starting a business. While you continued to stay at your dead-end gig because it was an easy 40 and out, I was putting in 100 hour weeks growing my company. While you stagnated, my company expanded. The gap between us grew larger and larger as time went on, until we get to where we are today: I own an incredibly successful company that I pay others to run for me, and to supercharge my wealth, I work for a large company as well, even though I don't have to. While you're bemoaning how it's not fair that somehow I ended up with more than you, I'm making sure I stay ahead of the curve.
Luck had nothing to do with it. The end result was pre-determined the moment we stepped out onto the field. I wanted it, those who think it was all "luck" didn't.
You keep buying those lottery tickets, those of you who agree with the OP. I'm gonna keep my head down and take care of business, just like always.
Now there's a great post if I ever saw one.
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