Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-23-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,403 posts, read 5,242,684 times
Reputation: 2500

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Not true because there are definitely anti-Americans.
Because they don't toe the Fox "News" party line?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-23-2010, 05:11 PM
 
3,282 posts, read 5,204,078 times
Reputation: 1935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Why can't the world trust the U.S? Do you realize how many Americans have died liberating other countries in the last 100 or so years?

I think what you said is very offensive to Americans.
Do you realise how many people of other countries have languished under authoritarian governments that America sponsored because they were pro-American and anti-Communist?

People don't trust America because they've read the history book. The shadiness and machiavellianism of the entire latter half of the 20th century has done more damage to America's reputation than anything post here ever could. Since WWII, American foreign policy has been little more than prop up crackpot dictator against crackpot dictator in a geopolitical game of chess and audaciously claim the high ground for it. Chiang in China, Korea, Vietnam, Batista in Cuba, Noriega, Pinochet, the Shah, Osama and the Mujihadeen, etc. Even to this day the American government piles lies upon lies about the two wars, torture, rendition, it would be easier to count the things we've actually been truthful about.

A patriot might demand more principled behaviour from their government. Though I'm sure one who wanted the erosion of American values might be perfectly fine with the status quo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2010, 05:14 PM
 
49 posts, read 25,750 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
Because they don't toe the Fox "News" party line?
Fox News isn't a party, it is a news agency that reports honestly on the news. It shocks you because the last thing you get from the other outless (except Rush et al) is an honest reporting of the facts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,511 posts, read 33,325,190 times
Reputation: 7624
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
Because they don't toe the Fox "News" party line?
Oh, another one with FNDS (Fox News Derangement Syndrome).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,511 posts, read 33,325,190 times
Reputation: 7624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
Do you realise how many people of other countries have languished under authoritarian governments that America sponsored because they were pro-American and anti-Communist?

People don't trust America because they've read the history book. The shadiness and machiavellianism of the entire latter half of the 20th century has done more damage to America's reputation than anything post here ever could. Since WWII, American foreign policy has been little more than prop up crackpot dictator against crackpot dictator in a geopolitical game of chess and audaciously claim the high ground for it. Chiang in China, Korea, Vietnam, Batista in Cuba, Noriega, Pinochet, the Shah, Osama and the Mujihadeen, etc. Even to this day the American government piles lies upon lies about the two wars, torture, rendition, it would be easier to count the things we've actually been truthful about.

A patriot might demand more principled behaviour from their government. Though I'm sure one who wanted the erosion of American values might be perfectly fine with the status quo.
Amazing that you criticize the U.S. and not Germany, Japan or Italy.

What would the world looked like if there was not U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s?

What "torture?" Waterboarding which is also used for training purposes on U.S. SEALS?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,511 posts, read 33,325,190 times
Reputation: 7624
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
There's no reasoning with the paranoid right wing arm chair warriors. They're the first to wave the flag and call for war and the last to go. The military never has enough money, bombs, bullets, billion dollar planes according to them but when it comes to paying for it they start whining about taxes. Everyone who doesn't bend over and let America rape, pillage and plunder their resources is a terrorist. The military will bankrupt this country as surely as it did the Soviet Union. Yes, we need a military; no we don't need the bloated monstrosity that's sucking the life out of us. Billion dollar bombers and other military pork barrels, do not make us safer as 19 hijackers with $9. box cutters proved. Let's stop looking for pretexts for war and find some pretexts for peace.
And the paranoid left wingers are the last to wave the flag.

Where has America "raped, pillaged and plunder" another country's resources?

Funding for the military is only 20% of the budget.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2010, 08:31 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,929,235 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Amazing that you criticize the U.S. and not Germany, Japan or Italy.

What would the world looked like if there was not U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s?

What "torture?" Waterboarding which is also used for training purposes on U.S. SEALS?
What did the US do in the 1930s?

The US entered WW2 because we were attacked. While we were the ones that beat the Japanese, it is arguable that it was the Russians that destroyed Nazi Germany. That is why they occupied and kept eastern Europe for 40+ years after that, an occupation we did not try to challenge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2010, 05:24 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,197,413 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Who's crying? I was just (rightly) defending the U.S., whom accepts more immigrants than any other country on earth and whom gives aid (food and money) than any other country on earth.
We are also a nation that has invaded more other nations than any other nation in the 21st century. We have imposed ourselves and intervened in every nations business on planet earth. Do we do good things, you betcha, but when you beat a horse before patting it on the head, it makes you look schizophrenic or at least bi polar.

Quote:
I'm sure plenty others see it as offensive. I am far from being the only one. Why didn't you say "other people and nations might not trust us" in the first place?
Oh for God sake, with all the crap that gets tossed in this forum, I need to word something that wasn't offensive in the first place to apparently anyone but you, so as not to hurt your politically correct feelings.

Hyper sensitivity to criticism is the sign of a spoiled child. If others find it offensive that I said, "Other nations might not trust us" then too bad, suck it up and act like men, or at least adults.

Quote:
You may try praising the United States of America. And are glad that you live in the most generous country in the world and are thankful you are an American.
Ok, if it will make you feel better. Dear America, I praise thee, amen. Feel better now, happy?

Thing is, I love my country a great deal and while many folks only see my harsh criticism, they don't see the reasoning why. I happen to think my country has one of the greatest forms of government ever devised by human minds, but it isn't perfect. The problems and corruptions lay with men, as men are greedy, self serving, lured by power, and all the while being some really smart and sharp folks. Even a good system infected with greedy minds can be corrupt. This is not left and right, this is just a human thing.

My primary focus of criticisms are upon people, those human beings that are ultimately responsible for running the machine and keeping the cogs greased. People are also prone to things like greed, self interest, as well as a litany of other emotions which far too often drive their decisions and actions. So I try to point out to my fellow Americans if "the shoe was on the other foot, then how would you feel"?

Example by the first reasoned criticism of the START treaty with Russia I heard was that we would have to allow Russian inspectors into our nuclear facilities. What Americans scream and rage over, the very thought of someone inspecting our facilities, is the very thing we demand of other nations, and we not only demand it, we go to war when they fail to comply to our standards.

Now some people will think about that and say, if even for a short moment, "you have a point" but..., others just don't give a damn because were America by gawd (spits) and we do whatever the hell we want, no rules, no laws to bind us but the laws we create. This in my opinion is a spoiled arrogant view wrought in exceptionalist attitudes and makes us a target.

You can disagree with every opinion I've ever offered, In fact, I've probably disagreed with every single person that hangs out in this area of the forum at one point or another and I for one thank them for their disagreements. I respect people who disagree and challenge ideas, and I do disdain the circle of back patters, because self adulation accomplishes nothing other than to make oneself feel better but does nothing for the country.

Quote:
I agree. Do you know any "yes men?"
Absolutely, this place is full of them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2010, 05:51 AM
 
3,282 posts, read 5,204,078 times
Reputation: 1935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Amazing that you criticize the U.S. and not Germany, Japan or Italy.

What would the world looked like if there was not U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s?

What "torture?" Waterboarding which is also used for training purposes on U.S. SEALS?
Amazing that you pick the one war of the entire century that America could actually justify as a defensive war. What about all the frivolous wars America has entered in the name of relieving people of their sovereignty and making decisions for them?

We don't have to do our own torture. That, like everything else of late, is outsourced to other countries. Or are you going to pretend that you don't know about extrajudicial rendition? Very principled behaviour by our government I'll tell you...

Germany, Japan, and Italy have at least parted with their warmongering ways. We could stand to learn a thing or two by studying that process. We've only been moving in a darker direction ever since our government struck gold on 9/11 and was delivered a new perpetual war through which to justify abuses of power on an enormous scale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2010, 05:57 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 5,370,987 times
Reputation: 3059
Quote:
I agree. Do you know any "yes men?"
Quote:
Absolutely, this place is full of them.
Apparently so is our government.

Reduction in missiles is not the only issue in the debate. Reduction in forces and delivery systems hurt more than just our ability to to defend ourselves. Why cut our bomber and submarine fleets?

The other issues were listed by lifelongMOgal and all her points were clearly ignored by our current inept administration.

It doesn't matter who began this treaty or when, it was bad when first written and throwing out a blanket statement like 'why didn't you oppose it when Reagan and Bush began it' is asinine. Was CD here when that happened? No. Were people up in arms criticizing it when it was first introduced? Yes. Did Russia adhere to the original treaty? NO!

Kowtowing to Russia's demands 'take it or leave it' attitude is folly.

Signing a treaty to extend a treaty that your counterpart has not honored is simply the epitome of stupidity.

Signing a treaty to further your own world view is insanity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:23 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top