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And the recall effort to recall the Repubs isn't disenfranchising entire districts and stripping constituents of representation? Please explain how this isn't and the other is.
Recalls are actions of the people. And in case you didn't know it, there are Republicans and Democrats that are the focus of recall movements.
And in the meantime, various legislative matters will be considered and voted upon? Then it stands to reason that those legislative matters will impact all the people of the state. And yet the people of the state who are represented by the Democratic senators will have no vote on such matters.
No.. Its not the Republican members fault that the Democrats didnt stand around for roll call.. Yes, various legislative matters will be considered and voted on in the meantime.. Why arent you upset because Democrats DIDNT ATTEND ROLL CALL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Representation is key to the republican form of government. If you bar some groups representatives from weighing in on government matters, then you effectively bar the people who elected those representatives from the legislative process. That's injustice.
NO ONE IS BARRING REPRESENTATION.. They are simply FOLLOWING THE RULES that EVERYONE follows. If the Democrats were so concerned about representation, maybe you should have demanded they stay in represent.. You cant blame someone else for the actions of Democrats..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
And a recall is not about stripping constituents of their representation. It's about constituents determining that the person elected is not adequately representing the people. Recalls are actions of the people.
So someone who DOESNT vote, according to you, is representing the people, and those that do vote, arent? So you should be thanking the GOP for following THE RULES and not allow Democrats to vote right?
Then why not have a roll call? Why wait? Whims of the Senate Majority leader? Fitzgerald is WRONG. He's trying to punish senators, but he forgets that those senators are just spokesmen for the people, and it's the people he punishes when he silences those senators.
Complete partisan hackery at it's finest. For some reason I don't think you would have the same outlook if it were Dems doing this. As a matter of fact I KNOW you wouldn't be saying what you are saying here.
But there are people who are happy with the senators. Actions of what people? The opposite party? Yep, that's who. This isn't about honesty, this is about dirty Democrat politicas. Dems just can't stand not getting their way. As Obama himself has said, "Elections have consequences". Should we have tried to recall Obama as well? How would you have reacted to that?
You have a brain, right? Then use it. When you have a recall election, all the people get to vote, not just members of the opposite party. All the constituents in a particular district or jurisdiction get to vote. Recalls are acts of the people.
And the recall effort to recall the Repubs isn't disenfranchising entire districts and stripping constituents of representation? Please explain how this isn't and the other is.
Sour "name one country that separates Switzerland and Sweden" D, a recall election is enfranchising entire districts, providing constituents with representation that they feel better suits their needs than what they were getting from their previous elected representatives!
And for the record, I don't have all that much of a problem with there being lingering consequences for the Democratic senators who left the state. They knew they were taking a big risk, because they were taking a principled stand. The Republicans proved that the anti-union measure was not truly budgetary, but ideological, by stripping the anti-collective bargaining measures from the budget bill and passing it separately. The Democrats proved their point on an issue they considered important to them, and I do think it's important that they face the lawful consequences of that action, to show how important it was to them.
Outstanding! Ther should be consequences for walking off the job. Anyone in the private sector would have been fired for leaving their job like that. Being fined a lousy $100 a day was nothing. Hopefully the recall efforts underway will remove these Democrats from office. They should have to give back their salaries as well since they abdicated their duty.
While that may be satisfying to you, the reality is that the Democratic senators aren't the ones being punished, their constituents are. And that's an injustice.
And it's an injustice that these constituents should take up with the people who failed to represent them!
Then why not have a roll call? Why wait? Whims of the Senate Majority leader? Fitzgerald is WRONG. He's trying to punish senators, but he forgets that those senators are just spokesmen for the people, and it's the people he punishes when he silences those senators.
Waaa.. waaa. I want it my way...
thats what this is starting to sound like. Sorry but you dont get to change the rules after you run away like a little baby.. Actions have consequences.. If you dont show up for court to tell the judge you are not the father of the baby, the judge can listen to the testimony and pronounce you the dad, even if you arent.
If you dont show up to contest a PFA, a PFA will be granted, even if you are not guilty.
I had a hearing the other day to contest a property tax bill.. If I didnt show up, they would have denied my claim.
Its YOUR fault that you didnt show up... Not the judges...
You are right.. just because Republicans say they are in contempt doesnt make it so.. But the ELECTED officials who voted on them being in contempt actually does.. The fact that no Democrats were present to vote against the contempt isnt the fault of the Republican members who were there..
No, there has to be a reason and "Because we say so" isn't a reason
No.. Its not the Republican members fault that the Democrats didnt stand around for roll call.. Yes, various legislative matters will be considered and voted on in the meantime.. Why arent you upset because Democrats DIDNT ATTEND ROLL CALL?
NO ONE IS BARRING REPRESENTATION.. They are simply FOLLOWING THE RULES that EVERYONE follows. If the Democrats were so concerned about representation, maybe you should have demanded they stay in represent.. You cant blame someone else for the actions of Democrats..
So someone who DOESNT vote, according to you, is representing the people, and those that do vote, arent? So you should be thanking the GOP for following THE RULES and not allow Democrats to vote right?
You idiot. I was upset that the Democrats left the state. I posted as much. I recognize that it's a strategy, but I don't think it's a good strategy. So don't sit there and accuse me of something, when you obviously don't know how I feel on the topic.
And now that the Democrats are back, Fitzgerald is barring representation. He's not letting them vote. They are representatives, of someone. Do you think it's fair that their constituents are now not represented, while the Senate entertains legislation that affects those constituents? It's not fair. It's unjust.
And Fitzgerald isn't following the rules. He's making them up as they go along. There's nothing in the Senate rules that allows him to take these actions. Hence, he's overreaching his authority.
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