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Ummmm ...ok. Like European cities are friggin wonderlands of good clean fun aye? The arrogance never fails to astonish. Much as I hate citys, in general, I would take an American one over a European one any day. European urban cesspools have had a century or two more flushing into them and the filth in the tank ain't nothing to crow about pard.
And you think that not allowing kids to see firearms in competition will somehow bleach your toilet tanks? Way I see it, some stains won't scrub clean......
Plumbers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
When they pay for the tickets, it is up to them to decide what the tickets are for, and what not.
And it makes sense for the authorities to try and keep kids away from anything gun-related. It's not the US after all... I know it is hard to understand for Americans, but we don't want our cities and societies to be anything like in the US.
wait, kids seeing guns is going to damage their psyche? Are you actually being serious? So Swiss kids are brain damaged when they graduate from high school? Because it's very common for Swiss children to participate in shooting events with their older parents and siblings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Maybe BECAUSE of their history. Europeans have had wars thousands of years before the US even existed, I guess all in all we are a bit tired of fighting. The US is still like a rebel teenager, we Europeans are more like mature senior citizens
And thanks to the ease of travel, communication etc. we can analyze the US and arrive at the conclusion that that is what we definitely don't want.
Nevermind the fact that gun crime is on the rise there, especially amongst the Muslim population at least we don't have radical crazy Muslim kids here holding up signs saying death to the U.S. and Sharia Law will come
Gun related events should not be a part of the olympics. Let the NRA and various militia groups have their own gun olympics.
You do realize that the Olympics was started as contests between warriors? So I reckon we should eliminate wrestling,boxing,track and field events such as shotput,javelin, and discus, maybe archery...shall I go on? You make absolutely zero sense ....your opinions are clouded by bias. Once again...I stand in awe of what is often touted as a mindset that has "superior intelligence "backing it up. Can't see it, personally.....
This, from the nation who fought back and held tight against Hitler's Luftwaffe. What happened?
"Schoolchildren in London are eligible for 125,000 free tickets for the 2012 Olympics next Summer, but any event that involves a firearm will be excluded from the massive giveaway....."
"....City Hall and Olympic Organizers are afraid of an anti-gun backlash. That’s right — the powers that be in London won’t subject kids to such bloodsports as Skeet and Trap shooting......."
wait, kids seeing guns is going to damage their psyche? Are you actually being serious? So Swiss kids are brain damaged when they graduate from high school? Because it's very common for Swiss children to participate in shooting events with their older parents and siblings
Nevermind the fact that gun crime is on the rise there, especially amongst the Muslim population at least we don't have radical crazy Muslim kids here holding up signs saying death to the U.S. and Sharia Law will come
I don't know about the Swiss. In Germany and here in Portugal as well normal kids don't have anything to do with firearms, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. We should not take the presence of guns in civil life for granted the way it is in the US.
Frankly, I think you have more crazy people in US cities than there are in European cities, regardless of religion.
Ummmm ...ok. Like European cities are friggin wonderlands of good clean fun aye? The arrogance never fails to astonish. Much as I hate citys, in general, I would take an American one over a European one any day. European urban cesspools have had a century or two more flushing into them and the filth in the tank ain't nothing to crow about pard.
And you think that not allowing kids to see firearms in competition will somehow bleach your toilet tanks? Way I see it, some stains won't scrub clean......
I don't share your views, to put it mildly. You don't know what you are talking about.
I don't know about the Swiss. In Germany and here in Portugal as well normal kids don't have anything to do with firearms, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. We should not take the presence of guns in civil life for granted the way it is in the US.
Frankly, I think you have more crazy people in US cities than there are in European cities, regardless of religion.
Well I don't think it has to do with crazy people. You have a lot of crazy people over there too, but you just hide them a lot better than we do. Here we dump them out on the street instead of locking them up in a mental institution. That's the problem we have here.
And the other side of the problem we have, the sheer amount of gangs that we have here that WILL get their hands on guns no matter what the law says. You can't buy a gun here if you have ben convicted of a felony or domestic abuse, yet the street gang members here are all able to get their hands on automatic weapons (that you can't get at a gun shop) when a normal person is banned from having one.
Well I don't think it has to do with crazy people. You have a lot of crazy people over there too, but you just hide them a lot better than we do. Here we dump them out on the street instead of locking them up in a mental institution. That's the problem we have here.
And the other side of the problem we have, the sheer amount of gangs that we have here that WILL get their hands on guns no matter what the law says. You can't buy a gun here if you have ben convicted of a felony or domestic abuse, yet the street gang members here are all able to get their hands on automatic weapons (that you can't get at a gun shop) when a normal person is banned from having one.
Well, you brought up the crazy Muslim kids I was not talking about literally crazy people, either. Nor do I think there is any major difference in the way we treat those people.
Yes, and that is only possible because US society as a whole is saturated with guns. If you can't get a gun one way, you will get it another. Guns are not stigmatized they way they are among most Europeans. If you have a gun in a European city, you are considered either a cop or a criminal.
I can find no sympathy whatsoever for this decision on behalf of London authorities. I find it very clear that it is motivated by irrational hoplophobia, and is not to be taken as merely being a legitimate ethical disagreement which should be entertained such that we should try to see the other sides point of view. The point of view is seen quite clear and with 20/20 acuity, it is simply being rejected by me in the same way I would offhandedly dismiss the ravings of somebody who tried to convince me that a person of x color is intrinsically evil not because of what they may have done in their life, but merely because of skin pigmentation, and where I then futilely make the mistake of proceeding to have a "reasonable conversation" with such a maniac such that the entire conversation is quite circular and amounts to the same premise being stated over and over again. "Why is the person of x color evil? one asks the irrational bigot" ... "Well because he is x color," of course, the irrational bigot replies. Oh, well, that clears that up.
But make no mistake about it, most people who harbor irrational prejudices and fears like hoplophobia are not really foolish enough to be that transparent with their argument, because they know it would be exposed in the blink of an eye for the obvious irrational prejudice that it is, and so what they do is they muster up every pretext in the book imaginable, and will latch on to any convenient argument they rationalize as being "persuasive"... or at least they find it persuasive in their mind in the same way that hoplophobes no doubt find what they are saying as persuasive. Cognitive bias caused by irrational fears and prejudices have that interesting effect on people. But all the pretextual arguments in the world aside, the little "seed" which is the underlying rationale, remains the same. That seed is that of irrational prejudice or irrational fears, or both combined. The rest of the argument(s) are just window dressing to obscure the obviousness of the prejudice or fear. And that is what we have hear, hoplophobia at its finest, the proponents of which offer up unpersuasive window dressing arguments in the same way that prejudiced people of all kinds offer up (be they homophobic, xenophobic, prejudiced against a certain color, etc...) will say whatever it takes to somehow make sense of their irrational fear.
A qualitatively similar analogue of this kind of irrational thought can be seen among those who harbor severe homophobia, xenophobia, or other prejudices like color.... but I would go so far as to say that this particular expression of hoplophobia is even more acute than many of the worst cases of flagrant homophobia and xenophobia, and I'll discussed why I think that is so in the one or two concluding paragraphs at the bottom.
It is a fairly well observed trend to those who are interested in politics that many people seem to be "allergic" to certain key words as a byproduct of irrational prejudices and fears. These cover the gamut of well known and lesser prejudices and fears, but let's just pick two common ones that are always hot-button political topics, xenophobia and homophobia. Let us briefly construct a similar situation to what the good folks in London are doing, only instead of focusing on hoplophobia, let us substitute homophobia and xenophobia into the situation:
Let's say that school officials in two different districts had two different programs going that triggered irate responses. One school district wants to put a textbook on the library shelves entitled, "Getting gay with Pedro." The other school district is offering tickets to a number of plays at the local theater, but some parents object that one of the plays is named "What a Merry ol' Time in Gay England."
Now for sake of argument, let us say that neither the aforementioned theater play or the book have anything to do with homosexuality, the word "gay" is simply being used in its older sense, meaning "merry." However, why let the rational facts and coherent ethical arguments get in the way of irrational thought patterns which are harbored by a very limited segment of society who suffers from this 'affliction.' And naturally, a few irrational lunatic parents start protesting because they are "allergic" to the mere mention of the word gay, regardless of context. And they start rambling on about the "gay agenda being promoted in our schools." And on top of it, then the xenophobes then also come out of the woodwork, because one of the books has the name "Pedro" in the title... and naturally, we can't be peddling the filthy Mexican agenda in out schools. Now, assuming the book and theater plays are doing none of these 'nefarious' things, and people are simply knee-jerk reacting not to the content or the context of the situation, not to the substantive ethics behind it... but just to the mere mention of the word "gay" or "Pedro" in the title of a book or theater play, then there is no substance to their objection that rational people should ever entertain. To try to waste time entertaining the moral validity of these irrational peoples point of view is a waste of time. And so too, is it a waste of time to placate hoplophobes and their absurd arguments. But of course, in the mind of irrational prejudiced lunatics, this all makes perfect sense... just as it no doubt makes sense in the mind of an irrational hoplophobe and others who harbor irrational fears.
If a xenophobe or homophobe cannot substantively differentiate between a book or theater play that actually has gay-themed content, or which has an actual content which promotes some kind of political agenda that could give rise to an actual substantive objection for which a bona fide argument can be had...... as opposed to simply having a knee-jerk reaction to a book or theater play with the word gay or Pedro in it, even though the content of the book or play has nothing to do with what they think it does, then no rational conversation could be be had with such a hypothetical person. There is no legitimate "other" point of view to be had in this case when a person has a cognitive bias that renders them unable to make key substantive distinctions upon which the coherent ethical criteria need to revolve. A person having a knee-jerk reaction to a word, where that person ignores context or the underlying substative situation, is not promoting rational though. They are promoting logical incoherence.
By the same token, I argue that there is just no rational discussion to be had with some hoplophobes. Those who outright refuse to substantively differentiate between a game of skill where one shoots at paper targets versus guns being used to murder people, they are 'birds of a feather' or 'peas in a pod' with their brethren, the knee-jerk homophobe who might launch into a tirade at the mere mention of the word "gay," regardless of the context of that word, or the knee-jerk xenophobe who gets themselves worked into a tizzy whenever he sees the word "Pedro" or whatever other foreign word just happens to trigger this maniac off. No rational discussion is to be had. There is no "but just try to see their point of view" nonsense to be entertained. To do so, is to placate irrational people, instead of sternly rebuking and rejecting their entire defective thought process on these matters. They have a cognitive bias which renders them unable to think clearly on these matters, and you do a disservice to ethics by entertaining the ravings of people promoting incoherent arguments.
But you know what makes some hoplophobes truly unfortunate cases, its that in many ways they actually are worse than the hypothetical xenophobe and homophobe I discussed above. You know why? It's because at least most homophobes and xenophobes (not all, but most), despite their irrational prejudices, they actually can be reasoned with. They actually can make the substantive distinction between when a book title that uses the word gay to refer to homosexuality, versus recognizing that it can have the alternate meaning of being merry, or whatever. They have the ability to keep things in context, and because many of them will actually allow their reasoning abilities to prevail over what they might understand is their prejudicial knee-jerk impulses, they can understand and accept that there are legitimate uses of the word gay, and there are even legitimate time and places to have discussion about the homosexual issue.
On the other hand, if the content of the book or play actually did have such homosexual themes, then a legitimate argument could be had... because what is being objected to is the substance of the content, not merely a knee jerk reaction to a word in which no tangible harm exists.
But hoplophobes.... some of them sadly are worse than the worst of homophobes, because unlike the homophone or xenophobe who can often understand substantive context.... the hoplophobe sometimes wants to just purge guns entirely, absent context. Shooting at a piece of paper, or murdering people.... to hell with the context in their irrational minds.. purge it all... make it all go away. Or at the very least, they actually think it makes sense in their mind to "protect society" from paper target shooters. And so some of the more afflicted ones will just continue to refuse to accept the substantive ethical differentiation between murder and sport. No, there is no legitimate argument to be had with them. There should be no misguided attempts to "understand their point of view." When somebody refuses to make key substantive distinctions like that, whether it be the prejudiced person or the person with an irrational fear, you cannot allow yourself to stoop down to their level such that you entertain their incoherence. You only do a disservice to ethics by entertaining bizarre thought processes. Whether hoplophobes may actually be worse is beside the point, though, as it is sufficiently obnoxious that they suffer from the same thought process errors as many prejudiced people, and others who harbor irrational fears that lead to bizarre ethical conclusions.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 08-26-2011 at 12:19 PM..
I don't share your views, to put it mildly. You don't know what you are talking about.
Really now? Well....I don't share your views neither and having seen the underbelly of Paris, thus forming my opinion that Europe crows on an empty hen house, leastways I ain't spoutin' off totally blind...whereas you ...of course ...must have a more informed outlook on American culture? Beyond what bias Europe holds and passes to progeny about the US? Yes...we take the presence of firearms as obligatory ...where I live anyhoo. We use the pretty much.daily and skill with them is as required as daily bathing. Thus competitive events that showcase skill withfirearms holds interest to us. My son, who is 15, is an A class competitive shooter in Steel Challenge...one level below me. so disdain the shooting sports if you wish. Don't matter a fart in a high wind to me.
I rather like the US dominance in these events and have great pride in our teams.
wait, kids seeing guns is going to damage their psyche? Are you actually being serious? So Swiss kids are brain damaged when they graduate from high school? Because it's very common for Swiss children to participate in shooting events with their older parents and siblings
Nevermind the fact that gun crime is on the rise there, especially amongst the Muslim population at least we don't have radical crazy Muslim kids here holding up signs saying death to the U.S. and Sharia Law will come
Sorry man..lmao...we tend to use a lot of metaphor in our speech herebouts so....since the proverbial shoe fit..
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at least we don't have radical crazy Muslim kids here holding up signs saying death to the U.S. and Sharia Law will come
I was not talking about literally crazy people, either. Nor do I think there is any major difference in the way we treat those people.
