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In your opinion. I believe that marriage is between a man/woman exclusively. Unfortunately for you so does a significant portion of society, not just in the US, but everywhere worldwide. On the other hand, if society really wanted same sex marriage, we would have it everywhere by now and then you would be happy with the majority calling the shots because you would get your way.
Why is that "unfortunate for me"? Are you under the misconception that I am gay? Or don't you realize that many heterosexuals are also in this battle for the civil rights of our gay and lesbian friends? As for what "society" wants or doesn't want, I'll just remind you that it took new laws and plenty of court cases over the course of a century after abolition for Blacks in this country to be treated equally. And, in too many places within this country, they are still not afforded all equal rights.
In your opinion. I believe that marriage is between a man/woman exclusively. Unfortunately for you so does a significant portion of society, not just in the US, but everywhere worldwide. On the other hand, if society really wanted same sex marriage, we would have it everywhere by now and then you would be happy with the majority calling the shots because you would get your way.
And the majority of the world that opposes same-sex marriage is the 3rd world, barbaric nations like Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Shall we emulate their living conditions? Most of the 1st, western world is far ahead of us on equal rights for gays.
And we slaughtered Native Americans because White people were superior. God cursed black people as the Bible states and separated the races, so I don't see why you think blacks deserve to be treated like white people do in this country. Blacks make up a small minority, and by JobZombie's logic, majority dictates what they want. Sorry, life isn't fair, but black people deserve to be treated as inferior.
I really don't want to introduce too much Christianity into this thread. But how's this:
-My faith states that life began with Adam and Eve.
-In Genesis (the very beginning of life on Earth), came the following:
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24
This came *way* before any protests by anybody. And again, later events sought to place restrictions on the original definition of marriage.
Genesis is not literal. And even most Jews believe in equality for gays, and Genesis is our book, not yours.
That verse is also not exclusive. It was targeted at the majority audience. For example, it doesn't mention intersex individuals. Who are they allowed to marry since they have both male and female genitals?
Gays were not even discovered until the 19th Century A.D. Of course Genesis isn't going to list every exception to the majority. It would be incomprehensibly long. I will also remind you God condoned and even encouraged polygamy in Genesis. How can on one hand, the Bible say it's one man and one man, and on the other, make it one man and multiple women, including relatives (incest)?
I'm guessing you still don't understand why your beliefs are flawed and inconsistent.
And the majority of the world that opposes same-sex marriage is the 3rd world, barbaric nations like Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Shall we emulate their living conditions? Most of the 1st, western world is far ahead of us on equal rights for gays.
If humanity i.e. society wants homosexual marriage so badly then why don’t we have it? Perhaps we don’t have it because humanity really doesn’t want it. At least not as badly as you do.
How about this - if it's just about the rights, would you be okay - would it insult you - if, within the law, the term civil marriage was reserved for white couples but that any couple with a black person (or 2 black people) would be legally called a civil union? If the rights were the same, that wouldn't be an issue with you right?
I've stated this a few times in this thread (again, are you even reading my responses?). Gay couples can call themselves whatever they want. They can consider themselves "married" if they want. Common-law folks do this too; doesn't mean I agree or support their self-labeling.
But you keep harping on the idea that LEGALLY, they should be "civil unionized" rather than married. My question is WHY. Why should Tom & Ted or Ann and Anita be restricted legally to civil union when Tom & Ann or Ted and Anita can get a marriage license? I really would like to see your explanation of that.
yes that is what I stated. I dont see how anyone is confused by that.
If you want to keep marriage to be religious, then we should remove all legal rights for it, and only have it be performed by a church (or whatever religious authority of your religion is allowed to do it)
If you want your coupling to be recognized legally, and is given EQUAL to every couple, then they all need to go to City Hall, and get a Civil Union process done and Sign a contract (yes a CONTRACT). That's what makes it legal and then are allowed to take full advantages that are offered.
No, as you seem to not understand the underlying context:
Marriage for many should be only religious. so to keep it that way, marriage is only reserved to religious ceremonies. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ALL LEGAL RIGHTS as a couple , then get a CIVIL UNION done at your local City hall and sign a contract. That will provide you with all the legal rights you want as a couple.
that is not what you are argugin. YOU are arguing that marriage should not be "redefined" (and has been explained to you ad nauseum, that isn't being redefined, but expanded to include a class of people that aren't allowed to be covered under the term LEGALLY)
You have get the notion into your head that MARRIAGE is a LEGAL term to STATES and the FEDERAL GOVT. That's why many people do not GET MARRIEd in a church. The religious aspect if of your own choosing and you right, but in the end MARRIAGE is a LEGAL term, and can be expanded to include those that were once not included
Like with VOTING . At one time, women and slaves couldn't vote. An amendment to the Constitution expanded to include Slaves (once they were freed and considered citizens - 14th amendment) and then women.
VOTING definition wasn't changed, it was expanded to include a group of people that were once excluded.
I don’t know if I can have an intelligent debate with you. You insist on telling me what I’m saying vs. actually listening to what I’m saying. You want one group (civil unions) to have access to rights that others (marriages) do not. I’m not for that at all. I’m for equal rights for all. I know all about civil unions..I was married at my local courthouse.
So, you're okay with society dictating the terms of marriage as long you agree with the terms? Gotcha.
No, society doesn't dictate the meaning of secular institutions. Our laws do. And there has to be a compelling reason to deny someone the right to marry. There is not a legal compelling reason to do so with gays.
I don’t know if I can have an intelligent debate with you. You insist on telling me what I’m saying vs. actually listening to what I’m saying. You want one group (civil unions) to have access to rights that others (marriages) do not. I’m not for that at all. I’m for equal rights for all. I know all about civil unions..I was married at my local courthouse.
Huh? Arus has said no such thing. What rights does Arus want people in civil unions to have access to that people in marriages would not be allowed to access?
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Most of the 1st, western world is far ahead of us on equal rights for gays.
