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Why should I care what some book, purported to be the proclamations of some imagined, hateful sky fairy, has to say about homosexuality?
It is this very attitude that will prove a major hindrance in achieving your goals. Like it or not, there are Jewish, Christian and Muslim people within the US who will have a voice in this decision. Attacks like what you spew only hurt your cause.
One other thing I will mention, there's been a tone throughout this thread that religion should be taken out of this debate because it has no place in govt. But what of the other sins mentioned in the bible (namely murder and stealing) that the govt also agrees are wrong? Should we open our prison gates and let those folks go free? I mean, why should the bible dictate whether or not murder is wrong?
It is this very attitude that will prove a major hindrance in achieving your goals. Like it or not, there are Jewish, Christian and Muslim people within the US who will have a voice in this decision. Attacks like what you spew only hurt your cause.
One other thing I will mention, there's been a tone throughout this thread that religion should be taken out of this debate because it has no place in govt. But what of the other sins mentioned in the bible (namely murder and stealing) that the govt also agrees are wrong? Should we open our prison gates and let those folks go free? I mean, why should the bible dictate whether or not murder is wrong?
Religion and "sins" are different.
Religion is believing in a god or gods and then living your life with religion as a basis.
Acts of brutality are just that and you don't have to be religious to know they are wrong. I would venture to say that most atheists abhor murder and theft and it has nothing to do with believing in a higher being. I believe that human beings have the capability to be moral and good without relying on an authoritarian figure to tell them how to behave.
So, "religion" and "religious views" have no place in governing a large population, especially one with opposing and/or no religious affiliation. That is very different from judging one's individual acts of violence.
One other thing I will mention, there's been a tone throughout this thread that religion should be taken out of this debate because it has no place in govt. But what of the other sins mentioned in the bible (namely murder and stealing) that the govt also agrees are wrong? Should we open our prison gates and let those folks go free? I mean, why should the bible dictate whether or not murder is wrong?
Well, murder and stealing interefere with other people's rights to their lives and property, respectively. The Bible isn't necessary to justify laws against murder and theft.
This is a free country and we freedom of speech. If you wish to extrapolate a reasoned and intelligent argument why you hold such a view, you would be most welcomed to do so.
I wasn't being too serious. Personally I could care less if they get married or not, I don't think anyone has the right to force a Church like the Catholic Church to marry homosexuals but if another more liberal denomination of Christianity feels they want to marry homosexuals than that is none of my business.
Homosexual sex is kind of gross to me though, but then again many things are gross to me. At the end of the day what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business.
Christians aren't alone in their stance on homosexuality. Wonder why we are always the main focus for disgruntled folks?
Judaism and homosexuality:
The basis of the prohibition against homosexual acts derives from two biblical verses in Leviticus: “Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence” (Leviticus 18:22) and “If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—their bloodguilt is upon them” (Leviticus 20:13). The Torah considers a homosexual act between two men to be an abhorrent thing (to’evah), punishable by death—a strong prohibition.
"We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)
That's the Orthodox stance, and even Orthodox have become more supportive of gays in recent years.
Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, and some of Conservative Judaism are all supportive of gays, and believe Leviticus is misunderstood and only referred to pagan worship practices, not an outright ban on gays.
Considering I'm Jewish, don't try to pretend you know more about this than I do.
Christianity also preaches render unto Ceasar, and if the law of the land says homosexual marriage is allowed, then I think the ultimate judge should be God and not us. Personally I'm more of a civil union type of guy and wouldn't mind at all if they got civil unions. I believe marriage is a sacrament but then again so many people don't take marriage seriously anymore (see Kim Kardashian and a 60% divorce rate) that it's hard for me as a heterosexual to even take marriage seriously.
sin: An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
Devine law: any law or rule that in the opinion of believers, comes directly from the will of God. Religion: The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
Religion is believing in a god or gods and then living your life with religion as a basis.
Acts of brutality are just that and you don't have to be religious to know they are wrong. I would venture to say that most atheists abhor murder and theft and it has nothing to do with believing in a higher being. I believe that human beings have the capability to be moral and good without relying on an authoritarian figure to tell them how to behave.
So, "religion" and "religious views" have no place in governing a large population, especially one with opposing and/or no religious affiliation. That is very different from judging one's individual acts of violence.
So, sins shouldn't be considered as it relates to the law, only things that are "wrong"? Who makes these distinctions?
Sorry, but there is no difference. Both the govt and religion agree that murder, stealing, homosexuality and even drunkenness (to some degree) are wrong. Are we cherry-picking which ones to keep and which ones not to keep?
This is the same with Christianity, too. Despite what the bible says, many support gay marriage and perform such unions. Do you have other versions of the Torah that dispute what I've stated is the written word on Judaism and homosexuality?
Considering the verse you quoted from Leviticus does not quite mean in Hebrew what it means in English, and Jewish law essentially makes it impossible for that to be referring to consensual, same-sex relationships, and that section of Leviticus itself directly states it's talking about pagan worship rituals...
Yes, your understanding of Leviticus is deeply flawed.
That's the Orthodox stance, and even Orthodox have become more supportive of gays in recent years.
Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, and some of Conservative Judaism are all supportive of gays, and believe Leviticus is misunderstood and only referred to pagan worship practices, not an outright ban on gays.
Considering I'm Jewish, don't try to pretend you know more about this than I do.
LOL, I'm not pretending to know anything. Merely providing different religious views on homosexuality. You seem very angry and bitter. It's very hard to have an intelligent discussion with you.
Will you refute that your Torah states what I provided about homosexuality? Do you have any other versions that show that this was not a literal translation?
Will you provide any proof at all? Or will you continue down your same attack and insult path?
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Do you have the other interpretations or not?
