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Let us see: if the term 'natural born citizen' means both parents must have been born in the US, then:
1. Thomas Jefferson was not qualified (mother born in England).
2. Chester Arthur and James Buchanan: both had a parent born in Ireland.
3. Andrew Jackson: both parents born in Ireland.
4. Herbert Hoover: mother born in Canada.
5. Woodrow Wilson: mother born in England.
6. Mitt Romney: father born in Mexico.
Plus:
1. Hubert Humphrey (presidential candidate in 1968): Mother born in Norway
2. Spiro Agnew (VP,eligible for presidency): Father (and mother [?]) born in Greece
Let us see: if the term 'natural born citizen' means both parents must have been born in the US, then:
1. Thomas Jefferson was not qualified (mother born in England).
2. Chester Arthur and James Buchanan: both had a parent born in Ireland.
3. Andrew Jackson: both parents born in Ireland.
4. Herbert Hoover: mother born in Canada.
5. Woodrow Wilson: mother born in England.
6. Mitt Romney: father born in Mexico.
What a total misleading post. Thats correct this. Here are the facts.
1. Thomas Jefferson qualified because he was a exception. The first several presidents were grandfathered in for Article 2 Section 1 because they were just citizens (not natural born citizens) at the adoption of the Constitution.
2. Chester Arthurs was found to be ineligible recently. He was a usurper. James Buchanan's father became naturalized before he was born. Therefore he was born to two U.S. citizen parents.
3. Andrew Jackson was in the same situation as Thomas Jefferson. He was legally grandfathered in to meet Article 2 Section 1 because the country was new and no first generation natural born citizens were eligible yet to be president.
4. Herbert Hoovers mother became a citizen before he born. Due to the immigration laws at the time, she aquired U.S. citizenship by derrivative marriage to her U.S. citizen husband. Herbert Hoover was a natural born citizen born to two U.S. citizen parents.
5. Woodrow Wilson was the same as Herbert Hoover. His mother gained U.S. citizenship through derrivative marriage before he was born. He was then born to two U.S. citizen parents.
6. George Romney was born to two U.S. citizen parents who never relinquished their citizenship. While the Constitution requires that a president must be a NBC the first Congress of the United States in 1790 passed legislation stating: "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States".However, the Naturalization Act of 1795 repealed the Act of 1790 and removed the language explicitly stating that the children of U.S. citizens are natural-born citizens. As such, it is not clear that Romney was actually eligible for the office of president.
Actually, you are incorrect. He's not being accused of a crime, he's being required to prove eligibility. Kinda like when you go get your driver's license for the first time. Even if your parent's are with you, you have to have a birth certificate in most states, to prove eligibility.
How does that contradict my assertion? As I said, all he will have to do is present his birth certificate to demonstrate his eligibility. And not even his long form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt
Personally I find this interesting, not because I personally believe he's ineligible, but because it will force him to present his birth certificate for inspection, and the court can actually request the Hawaii records to be submitted for proof.
You are a tad mistaken. Under the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution the state issued and certified birth certificate is absolute legal proof of his eligibility. And under the Federal Rules of Evidence, the document itself is a self authenticating document requiring no extrinsic evidence to be accepted by any court.
For the court to request anything more, the Birthers will have to prove the certificate is a forgery. And since no criminal cases have been filed against Obama or the Hawaii DoH in the three plus years since they released the short form or the eight months since they released the long form, we can be certain that BIrthers have no such evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt
If he has something to hide, or there is something awry such as a problem with the SSN#, it will be documented in a court of law, which could be devastating to a lot of people should anything turn out to be falsified.
For starters, he apparently has nothing to hide since he has already released his birth certificate twice.
Secondly, there is no conceivable connection between somebody's SSN and eligibility for the presidency. As far as this issue is concerned it is a red herring.
2. Chester Arthurs was found to be ineligible recently. He was a usurper. James Buchanan's father became naturalized before he was born. Therefore he was born to two U.S. citizen parents.
He has never been "found to be ineligible." Birthers claim that he was ineligible but under US law he was a natural born US citizen.
For the first time in dozens of court cases challenging Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president, a judge has ruled that Obama must, in order to be a candidate on the Georgia ballot for president in 2012, meet the constitutional demands for candidates for the office.
top constitutional expert Herb Titus, contend that the term “natural-born citizen,” which is not defined in the Constitution, would have been understood when the document was written to mean the offspring of two U.S. citizens. That argument is supported by a 19th-century U.S. Supreme Court decision
So what, he Does met All the criteria. Silly Birthers, they used to be funny, now it is just sad to see them still chasing their tails
If defendant obama presents the BC to the court and it's pulled apart and proved to be fraudulent people will be setting themselves up for legal peril.
There is no risk of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe
If the BC proves to be legitimate this does not make defendant obama a natural born Citizen.
No it doesn't. It merely provides the legal standard of proof for that fact. It was the actual birth in Hawaii that made him a natural born citizen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe
It will be interesting to know who is going to present the BC to the court.
Possibly no one. The burden of proof is on the plaintiffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe
Obama has to present evidence he's a natural born Citizen. The Hawaii BC fails to do this.
The defendant only has to provide proof is the plaintiffs have actual evidence for their challenge. To this point, no Birther has ever been able to provide any.
Let us see: if the term 'natural born citizen' means both parents must have been born in the US, then:
1. Thomas Jefferson was not qualified (mother born in England).
You've discredited yourself, right there.
Why do you think Jefferson was eligible?
As to most of the rest... it doesn't matter where their parents were born; what matters is if their parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the person's birth.
Chester Arthur's non-eligible status based on his father's non-U.S. citizen status was only discovered recently. He repeatedly lied about his background and his family, and hid the fact that his father wasn't a U.S. citizen when he was born. Documented in the book Gentleman Boss: The Life of Chester Alan Arthur.
Furthermore, Chester Arthur refused to ever let anyone see his personal papers, and instead of donating them to the Library of Congress, as do most U.S. Presidents or their heirs, he had them destroyed shortly before his death.
Quote:
"During his lifetime, my father would never let anyone see them—not even me. When they finally came into my possession, I was amazed that there were so few. At my father's funeral in Albany, or rather at the interment of his ashes which took place several months after his death [July 17,1934], I enquired of all the cousins there assembled—the nieces and nephews of my grandfather, as to what had happened to the bulk of the papers. Charles E. McElroy, the son of Mary Arthur McElroy who was my grandfather's First Lady, tells me that the day before he died, my grandfather caused to be burned three large garbage cans, each at least four feet high, full of papers which I am sure would have thrown much light on history.
So wrote Chester A. Arthur III to Dr. Thomas P. Martin, then Acting Chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress, on April 15, 1938."
As for Mitt Romney... the question seems to be about his father's citizenship status. Romney's father was a U.S. citizen (having been born to 2 U.S. citizens in Mexico), so Mitt Romney (born in Detroit) is a natural born citizen. Though, in my opinion, a poor choice for president. I won't vote for him, that's for sure.
Just out of curiosity, why would you think a parent's foreign birth, alone, would preclude natural born citizen status? The determining factor in this respect is parents' citizenship status at the prospective candidate's time of birth, not the parents' place of birth.
No. State court decisions cannot supersede SCOTUS rulings.
Correct. State decisions instead follow SCOTUS precedent. And the Ankeny court tells us exactly which SCOTUS precedent they are following.
Quote:
Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Just as a person “born within the British dominions [was] a natural-born British subject” at the time of the framing of the U.S. Constitution, so too were those “born in the allegiance of the United States [] natural-born citizens.”
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