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"For the first time ever, more of the corn crop may go into gas tanks than into the stomachs of cattle and poultry destined for kitchen tables.
The prediction drew little response last week when it was released by the USDA in its Crop Production and Supply/Demand Report for the 2011 crop season. The USDA kept its prediction for ethanol production demand for corn at 5.05 billion, but lowered demand projections for livestock feed by 100 million bushels to 5 billion bushels."
Not to mention much of that ethanol is being exported.
Interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27
Nice try, you work for a gas company or driller? Maybe we should pollute the air and water faster so we can get used to breathing and drinking the filth sooner. It is amazing what industry will try selling us, telling us it is good for us.
Tell you what, go test that theory of yours, go down in your basement and take a sledge hammer to your cinder block foundation walls. That should make them safer in an earth quake.
Can you tell us what an earthquake is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
And my claim was not restricted to corn. Of course agriculture does not comprise most of the US enerty usage. However, it, along with trucking, are the most likely new users of natural gas to help reduce our nation's dependency on foreign oil for cultivation and transportation.
As to the rest of your post.
You are correct. I absolutely support the use of natural gas in those industry segments. However, that has little to do with the amount of energy America uses overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
so then you grow your own food, heat your house with energy you created, made your own electricity, clothes, furniture, built your own house with materials you made yourself? you may not realize it, but you use far more energy than you realize, which makes you a big part of that gluttonous american that uses far too much of the worlds energy supply.
There are ways to quantify and analyze energy and resource consumption. My post did not imply that we should target zero energy usage; in fact, I do not even claim that we should aim for the global average (the USA has plenty of domestic energy resources). Driving a car daily, living in a large home, deriving most protein from meat, purchasing unneeded goods... these are decisions, and they have consequences for resource usage. Americans have shielded themselves from those consequences thus far, but I do not believe we can continue to do so forever.
Earthquakes are a result of stresses that build up over time.
The more time the stress builds up, the larger the earthquake.
The larger the earthquake, the more death and destruction that happens.
If it were possible to release such stress by fracking or anything else, for that matter, then it would
be desireable to do so to prevent stresses from building up to the point that buildings could fall over.
Ohio has a history of earthquakes that are capable of knocking over chimneys. Wouldn't it be better to just
have 10 "quakes" every year that rattle dishes than one that caused structural damage every 10 years or so?
Now, apply that logic to Hati - which recently experienced a large quake that killed a quarter-million people.
Apply that logic to San Francisco which is more than 40 years overdue for another great quake.
How about Tokyo? It's the same thing.
Do we know how much stress has built up in the Memphis ( New Madrid ) area?
Note that if you don't understand the logic above, you are not qualified to be in the debate.
Fracking/injecting (without the poisons) just might be a good idea in areas prone to occasional, devastating earthquakes.
But I think it's more likely that the earth under Youngstown was in a state of equilibrium, and it was unlikely that we would have had a local earthquake in our lifetime... until they started operating that injection well.
............You are correct. I absolutely support the use of natural gas in those industry segments. However, that has little to do with the amount of energy America uses overall......
Focus on the thread topic, fracking for natural gas & earthquakes.
"Alternative renewable energy" is overrated. By all means, we can and should encourage R&D. But more reasonable consumption is IMO a far better approach to a variety of our problems.
BTW, I loathe most current environmental groups and resent being labeled as part of the "green club," whatever that is.
No. I consider the possibility that the US could drive gasoline prices down
below $1/gal again to be an undesireable outcome, but hey; Nice try dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27
Tell you what, ... basement ... sledge hammer ... cinder
block foundation ... should make them safer in an earth quake.
Talk about a Nice Try. That is an irrelevant analogy.
Try sticking to the subject instead of making baseless accusations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
Fracking/injecting (without the poisons) just might be a good idea in areas prone to occasional, devastating earthquakes.
It might be. That is what I think if it is proven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
But I think it's more likely that the earth under Youngstown was in a state of equilibrium,
and it was unlikely that we would have had a local earthquake in our lifetime...
Your statement presupposes that NE Ohio was NOT in a state of equilibrium.
You say no earthquake in our lifetime ( but later on, so stresses ARE building.
NE Ohio is no stranger to frequent earthquakes.
There is no place in N America that is in equilibrium. The Atlantic Ridge is constantly expanding and pushing
against the continental plate from the East. The Pacific plate is constantly pushing against it from the West.
The 1811-1812 New Madrid quake was the largest known quake to have occurred on N American land.
( The largest known quake occurred offshore Oregon in 1700. )
Your statement presupposes that NE Ohio was NOT in a state of equilibrium.
You say no earthquake in our lifetime ( but later on, so stresses ARE building.
NE Ohio is no stranger to frequent earthquakes.
Equilibrium, relatively speaking. I try not to be so absolute. And, as you say, nowhere in N. America is in equilibrium. But, as I sit here in my chair, I consider myself to be in equilibrium, despite the force of gravity pulling me down, and the force the chair is applying to my butt, to keep me from falling to the floor. I have no way of knowing if a piece of my chair will fatigue and break; allowing me to fall to the floor. But until that happens, I'm in equilibrium. IMO, (and according to many experts) Youngstown was in equilibrium, but the injection well was like a hacksaw cutting one of the legs of my chair, allowing me to fall.
No one can say if there was ever an earthquake in Youngstown, and no one can say there never would have been in the future. But there weren't any in recorded history. Until last year, when we had 11, within relatively close proximity to D&L's injection well.
No one can say if there was ever an earthquake in Youngstown, ...
I don't know if you call an earthquake that was "felt" in Youngstown a quake "in" Youngstown, but Eastern Ohio was never quiet.
How do you know there won't be another great quake like the New Madrid quake in Youngstown?
Given enough time, there will be a great quake everywhere, every place in the world. Everywhere.
You don't know if it will happen tomorrow or 1 million years from now. Stresses are building as we speak ...
On March 9, 1943, an earthquake centered east of Cleveland, was felt over a 100,000 square kilometer area, ... (I'm betting they felt that in Youngstown. )
On June 20, 1952, an early morning (3:38 a.m.) tremor awoke most of the people in the Zanesville area. ... felt over about 26,000 square kilometers in southeastern Ohio. ( ditto - Youngstown. )
On Jan 31, 1986, Northeast Ohio 1986 - Magnitude 5.0 - 1986 Northeast Ohio earthquake.
This earthquake caused minor property damage in several towns in northeast Ohio and northwest Pennsylvania; 17 people were injured in the epicentral area.
It mainly included fallen ceilings and plaster; cracked chimneys, foundations, and brick walls; and broken windows and underground pipes. Changes in the flow
of water were observed in more that a dozen wells in Lake and Geauga Counties, east of Cleveland. The changes included variations (starting, stopping) in ...
Yup. Never happened before in the Youngstown Area. It's totally unheard of. Oh wait: Maybe I don't know what
I'm talking about. This web site says there are Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed --- PRE FRACKING. -- golly doodles!
I can remember quakes happening in Far Western NY and PA as well as outside of Cleveland
in the last ten years or so in the news. It's "news" because no one expected it.
All of these "experts" telling us that fracking has caused something dangerous - regarding quakes
are just attention hoars - looking for money to fund more research and their mortgage payments.
In order to prove it, they would have to wait for a decade or more to collect frequency data.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that the fracking or fracking fluid disposal does
cause the stress areas to let loose. I don't know this is true, but I think it is.
Again, if it is, then that is a desireable side effect.
If it were up to me, we would not be pulling it out of the ground, but saving it and paying
the rest of the world with our Bernanke dollars which will be worthless in our lifetime.
Save it. Use it later.
Also; our largest source of oil is our ability to conserve it. It's available immediately,
requires no drilling or pipelines and hurts all the countries that sell oil and hate us.
Last edited by Yac; 01-24-2012 at 06:20 AM..
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