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Sweeping generalization. Yes, your posts do make you (and others) come across as extremely mean-spirited. Like the other guy said, reading this forum depresses me. Is this what humanity in America has come to?
Post some FACTS to prove your point (that poor people are poor for the reasons you stated).
The same can be said of you. You make sweeping generalizations that anyone who doesnt believe in welfare or who advocate workfare instead are mean spirited.
Show me your facts that prove that no % of poor are thus because of their own doing...
I pose this go to the supermarket on the 1st of the month. Look whats in the carts of those paying with foodstamps.. Then tell me nothing is wrong.
Drive past a low income housing developement and tell me nothing is wrong.
No not all abuse the system and many richly deserve the help they receive. But make no mistake their are those who have mastered the system and abuse it completely.
Tell it that its right for a welfare family if they are responsible to keep having babies they can not afford.
I was a guest of the British healthcare system several times back in the early 90's when my family was stationed in the UK (my dad was a squadron commander for the USAF). Their healthcare system is great. I only waited a few weeks to get a consultation with an opthamologist and a cardiologist. No horrible waiting lists. I met few people who had problems with their healthcare system. OK, one guy was a little ticked off because they said he was too old for bypass surgery, but they at least gave him medicine to take. It's not like he got no care at all. And there is very little evidence that bypass surgery really works long term vs. diet and drugs, so the UK may just be making a sound decision on how to spend their resources.
The bottom line is people being denied care in the US is completely arbitrary, vs. other countries that at least try and provide some level of care.
Since when? Mans history is filled with the killing and persecution of those who are weak or different. Nazi germany???
Might doesnt make right... But neither does indulging those who refuse to prioritize their lives and their spending habits.
Those guys in Nazi Germany were hanged for crimes. Hate and persecution is only normal in a human body as much as cancer is. Which is to say, it happens, but it is abberant.
Humans being primates have a strong social instinct, and I think libertarians and some on the right deny that. In a broader sense, it is one reason that many of us lead unhappy lives. We are upright walking ape hunters that evolved to spend alot of time running around and doing stuff (like hunting or gather food), most of us spend all day in a car or cubicle. No wonder we are stressed out all the time, we are divorced from our natures for the better part of our lives.
Sorry if the fact that I have personal experience at the bottom of the ladder and worked my way up the top as well as having a wife who has worked in both the insurance and lending industry to see how irresponsible people are bothers you. Maybe you need to get out more and pay attention to the fact that people are "irresponsible" or would you rather make excuses for everyone that they are somehow not responsible for their own problems, but rather everything that happens to them is some "conspiracy" to keep them down.
Lastly, you liking me has nothing to do with the issue, but then that may be part of your problem right there. That is, you seem to equate your position based on "feelings" rather than dealing with the actual facts of most issues. No surprise there.
I'm not aware of any emotion-based arguments I've made recently, but what bothers me isn't "the fact that you have personal experience at the bottom of the ladder and worked your way up the top as well as having a wife who has worked in both the insurance and lending industry to see how irresponsible people are," rather it's the fact that you, like 95% of social darwinist right wingers, then extrapolate that over millions and millions of people, assuming that you have some sort of psychological knowledge of how their brains work and their personal motivations and capacities, because of a few "poor people with $40,000 cars" that you've heard of. This type of thinking is just as retarded as the guys who call into the AM radio shows about how "Global warming can't be real because it was so cold in Boston this winter," and are then egged on and supported by the hosts who know they're not making any sense but like to appeal to the "base" so they can boost their ratings and establish their ideological purity before the eyes of the masses.
Last edited by fishmonger; 10-24-2007 at 10:53 PM..
Since when? Mans history is filled with the killing and persecution of those who are weak or different. Nazi germany???
Might doesnt make right... But neither does indulging those who refuse to prioritize their lives and their spending habits.
The same can be said of you. You make sweeping generalizations that anyone who doesnt believe in welfare or who advocate workfare instead are mean spirited.
Show me your facts that prove that no % of poor are thus because of their own doing...
I pose this go to the supermarket on the 1st of the month. Look whats in the carts of those paying with foodstamps.. Then tell me nothing is wrong.
Drive past a low income housing developement and tell me nothing is wrong.
No not all abuse the system and many richly deserve the help they receive. But make no mistake their are those who have mastered the system and abuse it completely.
Tell it that its right for a welfare family if they are responsible to keep having babies they can not afford.
What you're describing is anecdotal experiences, not particularly useful when making vast, broad judgements about 13% of American society.
You want to quote "extreme circumstances", fine, they do exist and there are people out there that have a very hard line of issues, but they are NOWHERE NEAR THE MAJORITY. If you think that, you are an OUTRIGHT LIAR!
The documented data does not bear that out. The three biggest causes of bankruptcy are 1) medical bills 2) divorce 3) death (of the primary breadwinner).
Where by the way, is the responsibility of the unscrupulous lenders? If you lend money to someone who isn't credit worthy, you are responsible for your choices. It's supposed to be a two way street.
I love how these threads seem to always end in the demonization of the whole based on the excesses of a few.
I must now quit reading the responses of social darwinsts and self-righteous mean spirited nihilists, no more meaningful debate is actually happening here and it is depressing knowing just how bitter and misanthropic my fellow human beings apparently are toward their brothers and sisters.
I can guarantee you that most of them are blue-collar middle class and have this fantasy, that they will be somehow making in excess of $300K a year. In my experience that seems to be the case. They think working their way from the 10% income bracket (or more likely from to the 25% income bracket), that they "made it". (or from 25% to 33%)
When reality, is they haven't really come that far and they are being dreadfully exploited by the 35% bracket. And the funny thing is, they side with the 35% bracket, thinking one day, they will be part of that bracket. The data does bear that out. That is a fallacy to keep the masses from revolulting against their exploiters.
I live in a state that pays 1 or 2 of the highest taxes in the nation, and I make more than the national average. We get back less from Washington than we give.
My tax dollars are paying for your services. So suck it up. I'm paying your bills.
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