Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Edward keeps mentioning "John" the anonymous witness who walked past the fight and said he was going upstairs to call 911. Why was John there in the first place and, if Zimmerman was being beaten severely enough to fear imminent death, why didn't he try to help? I'm a 61 year old woman who weighs 115 lbs fully dressed (Publix doesn't let me strip. lol) and even I would try to help. Also, if I you were a 17 year old Black teenager beating up someone and a man walked by and said "Stop, I'm calling the cops" wouldn't you get up and take off? (unless the person under you was pointing a gun at your chest) I guess we need to wait for this person to give testimony under oath.
Anyway, if people have the time to read the above link, it gives a timeline of the incident. The police arrived just over a minute after the shooting, so when did the neighbor with the iPhone get a chance to take photos? Did the police or EMS take pictures of his injuries? As the detective said on the night of the shooting, his story just doesn't add up. Maybe he was attacked and is telling the truth, but his story seems to have a lot of holes in it.
justNancy, what an excellent link! I read the article and many of the posts...my eyes are tired. The writer has done an excellent job of tying things together, and there was info we haven't really seen, such as DeeDee's version...poor kid. There are many salient points; I found myself
in agreement with her assessment many times. I found this comment made following the article very astute:
[quote] Morally, the blood is still on his hands, no matter the outcome. Had he not wrongly decided a 17 year old kid looked “suspicious,” and pursued him with a gun, and assumed with no evidence beyond his own internal biases that the kid was a criminal, that kid wouldn’t be in the ground today. [end quote]
I find it stunning that, with his past, Zimmerman was allowed to have a gun; that Trayvon was killed with a hollow point bullet is positively sickening. Again...the housing complex isn't huge, and Zimmerman lived there: How could he have not known the address, which was near the main entrance and clubhouse? I agree with the author of the article: George Zimmerman intended to follow Trayvon. He provoked the tragedy.
I've seen actual real criminal cases where the defendant did just that, self-inflicted wounds. One example is a man murdered his wife one night. He stayed beside her body on a water bed all night until the morning. He claimed someone broke in and killed her. She was stabbed to death. He had stab wounds himself, which were later determined to be self-inflicted. Medical Examiners have investigators and do a lot of forensic testing; amazing what they can find.
Also remember that case in Boston I think it was where the husband killed his wife in the car and claimed they were attacked by someone else; the husband had some wounds but the wife was shot in the head? Later it was determined that the husband shot his wife and that his wounds were self-inflicted. Charles Stuart was his name. Charles Stuart (murderer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In real life, self-inflicted wounds created for a defense, is not unheard of or all that uncommon.
Yes, there are many documented cases where the defendant self-inflicted wounds...but, I'm thinking...did GW have enough time? I believe neighbors & cops were there relatively soon after the shot was heard (seconds to 1 min)...I thought I heard one of the 911 callers say that people were out there with flashlights almost immediately after the shot was fired...
Charles Stuart's case was really, really bad, not only did he shoot his pregnant wife and shoot himself, he told the cops a black guy(s) did it...he eventually committed suicide by jumping off a bridge...
Yes, there are many documented cases where the defendant self-inflicted wounds...but, I'm thinking...did GW have enough time? I believe neighbors & cops were there relatively soon after the shot was heard (seconds to 1 min)...I thought I heard one of the 911 callers say that people were out there with flashlights almost immediately after the shot was fired...
Charles Stuart's case was really, really bad, not only did he shoot his pregnant wife and shoot himself, he told the cops a black guy(s) did it...he eventually committed suicide by jumping off a bridge...
I don't know if he had enough time. It only takes a few seconds to hit yourself over the head with a gun or whatever. Bottom line, I just don't know. I'm thinking about the investigator's testimony when he would not agree that the wounds were the result of Trayvon hitting Zimmerman's head on the cement. He said that the wounds were consistent with Zimmerman's head striking something harder than his head. Plus, remember, these people had flashlights, so it was not easy to see all that was going on, it was dark outside. I also think the investigator said that it wasn't consistent with their evidence....but not entirely sure how it was stated. I don't feel like listening to that testimony again at the moment. I'm a bit tired.
Who knows? But that could be something the State knows which we don't. Guess we'll find out what the State has when this case reaches the point of an immunity hearing or trial.
I'm sure we've all read the "it was the Black guy" excuses in the past. I'm certainly not saying Black people don't commit crimes, but when Susan Smith said a Black man stole her car with her babies inside after she drowned them, her story seemed plausible to most people.
I'm also not saying that's the case here, but people have a much easier time believing that Trayvon Martin did something wrong to cause his own death because he was Black.
Speaking of self-inflicting injuries, Ashley Todd carved an H into her own face and said a "large Black man" did it. I know she had to be mentally unstable, but imagine having such a fear of a Black POTUS that you'd mutilate your own face? Then that woman, Bethany Storro, who burned her face with acid blamed it on a Black woman who called her "pretty girl." I remember how sympathetic people were when that story first hit the news.
I don't think anyone is denying that Zimmerman was in a fight, but he could have made his injuries a lot worse. I understand what it's like to be frightened, but why can't we apply that same fear to the victim who was being pursued by an angry man with a gun?
I don't know if he had enough time. It only takes a few seconds to hit yourself over the head with a gun or whatever. Bottom line, I just don't know. I'm thinking about the investigator's testimony when he would not agree that the wounds were the result of Trayvon hitting Zimmerman's head on the cement. He said that the wounds were consistent with Zimmerman's head striking something harder than his head. Plus, remember, these people had flashlights, so it was not easy to see all that was going on, it was dark outside. I also think the investigator said that it wasn't consistent with their evidence....but not entirely sure how it was stated. I don't feel like listening to that testimony again at the moment. I'm a bit tired.
Who knows? But that could be something the State knows which we don't. Guess we'll find out what the State has when this case reaches the point of an immunity hearing or trial.
Yes, we won't know until evidence begins to come out, even then we may not know 100%...
I'm sure we've all read the "it was the Black guy" excuses in the past. I'm certainly not saying Black people don't commit crimes, but when Susan Smith said a Black man stole her car with her babies inside after she drowned them, her story seemed plausible to most people.
I'm also not saying that's the case here, but people have a much easier time believing that Trayvon Martin did something wrong to cause his own death because he was Black.
Of course, we all seen Al Sharpton wrongfully declare a black "victim" before.
Yes, there are many documented cases where the defendant self-inflicted wounds...but, I'm thinking...did GW have enough time? I believe neighbors & cops were there relatively soon after the shot was heard (seconds to 1 min)...I thought I heard one of the 911 callers say that people were out there with flashlights almost immediately after the shot was fired...
Charles Stuart's case was really, really bad, not only did he shoot his pregnant wife and shoot himself, he told the cops a black guy(s) did it...he eventually committed suicide by jumping off a bridge...
Exactly folks are bringing in so many theories and other extraneous facts. When would Zimmerman inflict these woulds on himself. The time if dispatch and arrival is listed at 7:19 on the police report. The girl friends phone goes dead at 7:16. We also have witnesses that the pro-Trayvon camp cites as seeing Zimmerman with no visible wounds right after Trayvons death.
We have the police documenting his appearance in the report. When was this self infliction supposed to occur?
Yes, we won't know until evidence begins to come out, even then we may not know 100%...
Get some rest...
Thanks.
And you're right, we won't know 100%. We will have the State's story (evidence) versus the Defense's story (evidence) and we'll have to leave it up to a jury or a judge to determine what most likely happened.
[quote=justNancy;24070649]I'm sure we've all read the "it was the Black guy" excuses in the past. I'm certainly not saying Black people don't commit crimes, but when Susan Smith said a Black man stole her car with her babies inside after she drowned them, her story seemed plausible to most people.
I'm also not saying that's the case here, but people have a much easier time believing that Trayvon Martin did something wrong to cause his own death because he was Black.
Speaking of self-inflicting injuries, Ashley Todd carved an H into her own face and said a "large Black man" did it. I know she had to be mentally unstable, but imagine having such a fear of a Black POTUS that you'd mutilate your own face? Then that woman, Bethany Storro, who burned her face with acid blamed it on a Black woman who called her "pretty girl." I remember how sympathetic people were when that story first hit the news.
I don't think anyone is denying that Zimmerman was in a fight, but he could have made his injuries a lot worse. I understand what it's like to be frightened, but why can't we apply that same fear to the victim who was being pursued by an angry man with a gun?[/quote]
There you go again.
No proof he was pursuing him. In fact he was retreating to his car when he was confronted by Martin who doubled around the buildings to attack him.
Who said he was angry? Or did you make that one up as well?
Again, are you for no one ever being able to defend themselves from an angry person with a history of drug abuse who was hell bent on breaking someones nose and banging their head into the concrete.
I know who the angry one was.
Zimmerman will be found not guilty and acted in self defense. Wait and see. So far unless someone pulls a rabbit or a liar out of a hat there is no evidence he did anything wrong at all.
I'm sure we've all read the "it was the Black guy" excuses in the past. I'm certainly not saying Black people don't commit crimes, but when Susan Smith said a Black man stole her car with her babies inside after she drowned them, her story seemed plausible to most people.
I'm also not saying that's the case here, but people have a much easier time believing that Trayvon Martin did something wrong to cause his own death because he was Black.
Speaking of self-inflicting injuries, Ashley Todd carved an H into her own face and said a "large Black man" did it. I know she had to be mentally unstable, but imagine having such a fear of a Black POTUS that you'd mutilate your own face? Then that woman, Bethany Storro, who burned her face with acid blamed it on a Black woman who called her "pretty girl." I remember how sympathetic people were when that story first hit the news.
I don't think anyone is denying that Zimmerman was in a fight, but he could have made his injuries a lot worse. I understand what it's like to be frightened, but why can't we apply that same fear to the victim who was being pursued by an angry man with a gun?
I did not believe Susan Smith's story for one second...the first time I saw her speak...I knew she did something to those poor babies...
My theory is Trayvon possibly reacted out of fear (Fight or Flight), I think either he thought GZ might be reaching for a gun or he saw the gun during the verbal exchange and his first reaction was to fight, rather than turn his back on GZ...
Last edited by tiluha; 04-28-2012 at 05:16 PM..
Reason: just being neurotic....again...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm a bit tired.
