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There is another witness who said a big guy was on top and a kid underneath. I'm not going to dig for the link; it's been posted many times and I'm sure you've seen it.
I haven't seen that one. I do recall two white women coming out of the woodwork saying they came outside after the shots and seeing Zimmerman appearing indifferent towards Trayvon. Is this what you are referring to?
There is also a 13 year old who witnessed parts of the fight. His initial story conformed with "John" however he is black and when this case blew up his mom coached him to change his story.
I would not have gotten physical unless Z laid a hand on me, as not to escalate the situation. I am to old to fight and I will shoot if threatened, but believe me, I have avoided situations because I carry a gun, better to walk away.
Yes, but you're older and wiser than Zimmerman, who shouldn't have followed Martin to begin with...at least, only far enough to see Martin enter the residence that he was visiting. Had Zimmerman tried to detain you, possibly by grabbing your arm, would you not have fought back?
Last edited by Evenstar51; 04-28-2012 at 09:02 AM..
I haven't seen that one. I do recall two white women coming out of the woodwork saying they came outside after the shots and seeing Zimmerman appearing indifferent towards Trayvon. Is this what you are referring to?
There is also a 13 year old who witnessed parts of the fight. His initial story conformed with "John" however he is black and when this case blew up his mom coached him to change his story.
They came out of the woodwork?" They were the first 2 people I saw giving a statement back in March. In fact, the blonde woman said she only went public because she gave a statement to an officer on the scene and he "corrected" her. Her roommate is Hispanic, by the way. So John, who suddenly came forward and remains anonymous, is a reliable witness, but 2 women who also live there and spoke to the police after the shooting are not? Explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51
Yes, but you're older and wiser than Zimmerman, who shouldn't have followed Martin to begin with...at least, only far enough to see Martin enter the residence that he was visiting. Had Zimmerman tried to detain you, possibly by grabbing your arm, would you not have fought back?
True, and we still don't know how he got the head injuries he claims were life threatening. Did he fall backwards and hit his head? Trayvon Martin's body was found on the grass, not a sidewalk. How far did the teenager walk with a bullet in his chest? If Zimmerman's statement is true, then it's strange the victim's lifeless body was face down. Did he turn around after he was on top of Zimmerman, holding his nose and mouth and beating him too? If someone is that close and you pull out a gun to keep him from banging your head again, aim it into his chest, how does he end up on his stomach? I'm in no way a forensics expert, but I do have these questions.
They came out of the woodwork?" They were the first 2 people I saw giving a statement back in March. In fact, the blonde woman said she only went public because she gave a statement to an officer on the scene and he "corrected" her. Her roommate is Hispanic, by the way. So John, who suddenly came forward and remains anonymous, is a reliable witness, but 2 women who also live there and spoke to the police after the shooting are not? Explain.
Because, just like in the Bible, women are not reliable and cannot testify in a court of law. (J/K)
There is also a 13 year old who witnessed parts of the fight. His initial story conformed with "John" however he is black and when this case blew up his mom coached him to change his story.
Just so you can't say I am using biased "liberal" media accounts of the story, I am taking this from Fox News. To me, the mother is saying her little boy, who is only 13, couldn't identify Zimmerman or Martin, but was pressured by police to give details he was unable to confirm.
[url=http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-casts-doubt-on-shooters-self-defense-claims/]Trayvon Martin witness casts doubt on shooter's self-defense claims | Fox News[/url]
"Meanwhile, the mother of a 13-year-old who also witnessed the killing told the New York Daily News that when Sanford police interviewed her son eight days after the incident, they "pressured" him to give more detail than he recalled."
"The youngster, Austin Brown, had been referenced by police as having seen Martin on top of Zimmerman during the fight, but his mother, Cheryl, said he saw only one person lying on the grass and could not identify them. "He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark," she said. "He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person."
I don't see where she changed her son's story. She said the police were pressuring the youngster to change his story and he kept saying he didn't see the faces of the men who were fighting. I'm pretty sure the boy was traumatized by the shooting.
Then there is this witness, also mentioned in the article.
"An unnamed witness speaking on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" said the entirety of the scuffle he saw between the two took place on grass, challenging Zimmerman's claim that Martin had smashed his head against a sidewalk after punching him in the face -- causing him to shoot the 17-year-old dead in self-defense."
"In reference to the size difference between 28-year-old Zimmerman and Martin, the witness described the fight as being between a "larger man" and a "boy." While the witness said he was not able to see who was on top of the other as the two scuffled, he said "there wasn't a lot of movement" immediately before he heard a gunshot."
Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away, he added, and he didn't see any blood on him.
True, and we still don't know how he got the head injuries he claims were life threatening. Did he fall backwards and hit his head? Trayvon Martin's body was found on the grass, not a sidewalk. How far did the teenager walk with a bullet in his chest? If Zimmerman's statement is true, then it's strange the victim's lifeless body was face down. Did he turn around after he was on top of Zimmerman, holding his nose and mouth and beating him too? If someone is that close and you pull out a gun to keep him from banging your head again, aim it into his chest, how does he end up on his stomach? I'm in no way a forensics expert, but I do have these questions.
He didnt say his injuries are life threatening, only that he feared for his life. Unfortunately when someone begins beating you they wont stop for you to get a medical opinion on the severity of your injury to help you decide if you should fightback. If a REASONABLE person would have felt that they were in iminent danger of great bodily harm or death they can use deadly force. I imagine the initial responders pieced it together & decided the evidence supported Zimmerman story. I dont find it difficult to believe the young man got up & stumbled off a few feet to die. This wasnt TV but real life. Its unfortunate that so many people are treating it like TV. A man was attacked, feared for his life & killed his assailant. Thats ALL THAT MATTERS. Whether he should have not listened to the 911 guy or not is irrelevant. We dont lose our right to life because we make a mistake. We only surrender that if we decide to victimize somebody who jusifiably feels they are in great danger. Like jumping a person at night.
They came out of the woodwork?" They were the first 2 people I saw giving a statement back in March. In fact, the blonde woman said she only went public because she gave a statement to an officer on the scene and he "corrected" her. Her roommate is Hispanic, by the way. So John, who suddenly came forward and remains anonymous, is a reliable witness, but 2 women who also live there and spoke to the police after the shooting are not? Explain. True, and we still don't know how he got the head injuries he claims were life threatening. Did he fall backwards and hit his head? Trayvon Martin's body was found on the grass, not a sidewalk. How far did the teenager walk with a bullet in his chest? If Zimmerman's statement is true, then it's strange the victim's lifeless body was face down. Did he turn around after he was on top of Zimmerman, holding his nose and mouth and beating him too? If someone is that close and you pull out a gun to keep him from banging your head again, aim it into his chest, how does he end up on his stomach? I'm in no way a forensics expert, but I do have these questions.
The link to the story I provided of "John" talking to the reporter happened 24 hours after the shooting. You will notice the first shown date as Feb 28, and you will see Trayvon's parents at the scene with their emotions still very raw. The reporter pronounces the name wrong and their is no mention of any hoopla, Sharpton or anything we came to associate with this case later on.
For some reason this report was overlooked for about a month and then it resurfaced as a "new witness emerged" in the national MSM. When in fact he provided this version at the very beginning.
The two women were on all the national tv shows and seemed to revel in the notoriety. I guess folks can cling to their witness statements if they like but I found them less then believable.
He didnt say his injuries are life threatening, only that he feared for his life. Unfortunately when someone begins beating you they wont stop for you to get a medical opinion on the severity of your injury to help you decide if you should fightback. If a REASONABLE person would have felt that they were in iminent danger of great bodily harm or death they can use deadly force. I imagine the initial responders pieced it together & decided the evidence supported Zimmerman story. I dont find it difficult to believe the young man got up & stumbled off a few feet to die. This wasnt TV but real life. Its unfortunate that so many people are treating it like TV. A man was attacked, feared for his life & killed his assailant. Thats ALL THAT MATTERS. Whether he should have not listened to the 911 guy or not is irrelevant. We dont lose our right to life because we make a mistake. We only surrender that if we decide to victimize somebody who jusifiably feels they are in great danger. Like jumping a person at night.
Once more, briskly: WE DON'T KNOW WHO STARTED THE ALTERCATION! THERE ARE NO EYEWITNESSES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD TO SAY WHO THREW THE FIRST PUNCH!
I'll add, even if there were such eyewitnesses, anyone who has ever been a parent, or a teacher, knows that the one who throws the first punch is not necessarily the one who started the fight.
You can imagine anything you want about the initial repsonders. There is quite a bit of evidence that they weren't doing their jobs properly.
Just so you can't say I am using biased "liberal" media accounts of the story, I am taking this from Fox News. To me, the mother is saying her little boy, who is only 13, couldn't identify Zimmerman or Martin, but was pressured by police to give details he was unable to confirm.
"Meanwhile, the mother of a 13-year-old who also witnessed the killing told the New York Daily News that when Sanford police interviewed her son eight days after the incident, they "pressured" him to give more detail than he recalled."
"The youngster, Austin Brown, had been referenced by police as having seen Martin on top of Zimmerman during the fight, but his mother, Cheryl, said he saw only one person lying on the grass and could not identify them. "He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark," she said. "He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person."
I don't see where she changed her son's story. She said the police were pressuring the youngster to change his story and he kept saying he didn't see the faces of the men who were fighting. I'm pretty sure the boy was traumatized by the shooting.
Then there is this witness, also mentioned in the article.
"An unnamed witness speaking on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" said the entirety of the scuffle he saw between the two took place on grass, challenging Zimmerman's claim that Martin had smashed his head against a sidewalk after punching him in the face -- causing him to shoot the 17-year-old dead in self-defense."
"In reference to the size difference between 28-year-old Zimmerman and Martin, the witness described the fight as being between a "larger man" and a "boy." While the witness said he was not able to see who was on top of the other as the two scuffled, he said "there wasn't a lot of movement" immediately before he heard a gunshot."
Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away, he added, and he didn't see any blood on him.
Maybe changed is too strong of a word but she certainly is trying to minimize what he saw to protect her son from being associated with anything that may get Zimmerman off. Frankly if I was in her shoes I'd do the same thing. Sharpton has unleashed a plethora of unstable Blacks who could inflict harm on her son.
Once more, briskly: WE DON'T KNOW WHO STARTED THE ALTERCATION! THERE ARE NO EYEWITNESSES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD TO SAY WHO THREW THE FIRST PUNCH!
I'll add, even if there were such eyewitnesses, anyone who has ever been a parent, or a teacher, knows that the one who throws the first punch is not necessarily the one who started the fight.
You can imagine anything you want about the initial repsonders. There is quite a bit of evidence that they weren't doing their jobs properly.
We do have a witness in fact maybe two witnesses who saw Trayvon "beating up" Zimmerman. How do you or more importantly the prosecution over come these people?
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