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Old 05-07-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
We know that the job gains are lack-luster. The question is what to do about them? The conservative answer is cut spending and cut taxes for rich people. The progressive answer is fiscal and monetary stimulus.
The latter has not worked, course when a POTUS chuckles about how construction wasn't really shovel ready.

With our massive debt, like Greece, it does not matter. The people will not be deciding fairly soon. Those that own our debt will make the call for us. They do not seem to chant "Yes, we can" or get a tingle up their legs like Chris Matthews.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:27 PM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,202,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
For people like me, who bought a house and obtained a mortgage in 1992, it made no matter. The difference is that there was a housing boom and many people bought homes within a few years of the crash at inflated prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
And the millions who invested in tech stocks?
NASDAQ 1992: 600
NASDAQ today: 3100
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,956,603 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
The latter has not worked, course when a POTUS chuckles about how construction wasn't really shovel ready.

With our massive debt, like Greece, it does not matter. The people will not be deciding fairly soon. Those that own our debt will make the call for us. They do not seem to chant "Yes, we can" or get a tingle up their legs like Chris Matthews.
1) Expansionary policies DID work but considering the size of the problem, it was ridiculously small.

2) "Our massive debt" is manageable because interest rates are near 0% and the most important thing economically is to rebound the economy so we can pay the debt.

3) any comparison to Greece is fallacious. Greece doesn't have its own currency, we do. Also, we see from Greece how well austerity has worked.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,204,343 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
The latter has not worked, course when a POTUS chuckles about how construction wasn't really shovel ready.

With our massive debt, like Greece, it does not matter. The people will not be deciding fairly soon. Those that own our debt will make the call for us. They do not seem to chant "Yes, we can" or get a tingle up their legs like Chris Matthews.
Let me say, being a former structural and civil designer that was involved with plenty of ODOT projects, there are always projects in the works (in study and design phases) that are just waiting on priority lists for funding. There were plenty of shovel ready or near shovel ready projects.

In most cases having the shovels (the right contractors and the right equipment) was the issue.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:36 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
1) Expansionary policies DID work but considering the size of the problem, it was ridiculously small.

2) "Our massive debt" is manageable because interest rates are near 0% and the most important thing economically is to rebound the economy so we can pay the debt.

3) any comparison to Greece is fallacious. Greece doesn't have its own currency, we do. Also, we see from Greece how well austerity has worked.
Greece was dead before trying austerity and before the Euro-its only now being recognized by the ignorant. What we share with Greece is a percentage to GDP debt ratio trend line; we're following 1-2 decades behind. Our dollar will not matter; no one wants money simply cause one runs the printing presses faster. Germany had its own currency in the 30s; how'd that work out?
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:38 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Let me say, being a former structural and civil designer that was involved with plenty of ODOT projects, there are always projects in the works (in study and design phases) that are just waiting on priority lists for funding. There were plenty of shovel ready or near shovel ready projects.

In most cases having the shovels (the right contractors and the right equipment) was the issue.

Imagine a CEO laughing at wasted billions? No, it would not happen, and it was an insult to Joe Taxpayer it happened with a POTUS. Wasting billions cause stuff was not shovel ready called for a WH apology. Not laughter.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,204,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Imagine a CEO laughing at wasted billions? No, it would not happen, and it was an insult to Joe Taxpayer it happened with a POTUS. Wasting billions cause stuff was not shovel ready called for a WH apology. Not laughter.
What wasted money? The money spent already when to much need repairs and upgrades to infrastructure. Don't confuse the part of the stimulus money that was designated for government job retention and taxes relief. That is where most of the stimulus went.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
What wasted money? The money spent already when to much need repairs and upgrades to infrastructure. Don't confuse the part of the stimulus money that was designated for government job retention and taxes relief. That is where most of the stimulus went.
He was laughing at the lack of benefit derived relative to spending. A very embarrassing moment to be an American.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKov2oBTFU

Almost as "funny" as his Special Olympics disabled children joke (sar),

Last edited by bobtn; 05-07-2012 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,956,603 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Imagine a CEO laughing at wasted billions? No, it would not happen, and it was an insult to Joe Taxpayer it happened with a POTUS. Wasting billions cause stuff was not shovel ready called for a WH apology. Not laughter.
Much of the stimulus went to the states to avoid layoffs. Justin Lehert of the WSJ did a piece that showed that if the states didn't layoff so many workers, the unemployment rate would be 7%.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,204,343 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
He was laughing at the lack of benefit derived relative to spending. A very embarrassing moment to be an American.


Shovel ready not ready - YouTube

Almost as "funny" as his Special Olympics disabled children joke (sar),
AGAIN, where was stimulus money wasted. Just because there is a delay while engineering and construction documents are being prepared DOESN'T mean the money was wasted.
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