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Here we go again. I honestly don't see how the Mods of this part of CD continuously let the same topics come up every couple weeks. But here we go....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
It depends upon what you consider an "absent" father. As the link below notes, not being married to or co-habitating with the mother, does not automatically mean that black men are absent from their children's lives.
In response to above, please see quoted post above this one. Unwed mother births do not equal "fatherless" children. My mom and dad weren't married and I knew my dad my whole life and am the ultimate "daddy's girl" as are my two sisters. My two brothers also had and have a very good relationship with our father, who though he had issues, took care of his children and was always there for us and never abandoned us. Honestly, I don't know many black people at all who's father completely abandoned them. Unfortunately the one I do know is my own husband and ironically he and his dad had a very close relationship since my husband was in his 20s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim6624
Although I feel that, ultimately, the choice to abandon a child is up to the mother/father, the main reason why single parent households have exploded in recent years is GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.
Before LBJ's "Great Society" programs were instituted, despite "racism", "segregation", and "oppression", 9 out of 10 Black men were in the house helping their spouse raise their children. Once the government guaranteed that you don't need a man to survive, that number is now less than 4 out of 10. White culture is headed down the same downward spiral.
On the bolded above, the 90% of black men being married and helping spouses raise their children prior to the 1960s is vastly incorrect. (Source). In 1964 25% of black children were born to unwed mothers and it was near 30% by 1968.
From the source regarding welfare being the reason for increase in out of wedlock births:
Quote:
One argument that appeals to conservatives is that of Charles Murray, who attributes the increase to overly generous federal welfare benefits. But as David Ellwood and Lawrence Summers have shown, welfare benefits could not have played a major role in the rise of out-of-wedlock births because benefits rose sharply in the 1960s and then fell in the 1970s and 1980s, when out-of-wedlock births rose most. A study by Robert Moffitt in 1992 also found that welfare benefits can account for only a small fraction of the rise in the out-of-wedlock birth ratio.
Bolds were added by me.
Black people in this country have always had a higher incidence of having unwed mothers give birth to children. This is one area the only one that I feel has a basis in both slavery (where women were sytematically bred and raped and marriage was not recognized, hence it was not seen as important since the beginning of black history in this country).
Also the reason why there are few marriages IMO and which the above source from Pew Research alludes to is the fact that the women's liberation movement freed women from forced marriages just because they were pregnant. "Shotgun marriages" fell out of favor and after that occurred unwed mother rates rose in all demographics, including black women. FWIW, my paternal grandparents were married via a shotgun style type of arrangement. That was in the early 50s.
Also the rate of black children being born to unwed mothers has slowed dramatically in recent years (Source).
From the source:
Quote:
The share of births that are non-marital is highest for black women (72%), followed by Hispanics (53%), whites (29%) and Asians (17%), but the increase over the past two decades has been greatest for whites—the share rose 69%.
Black women went from having an unwed birth percentage of 67% to 72%, which was much less than other groups and equal to that of Asians between 1990 and 2008.
Regardless though, just because a father is not married to the mother of his child does not mean he has abandoned that child. Like the quote by ButterBrownBiscuit (sounds really tasty I must say) indicates, many black men see and participate in their children's lives on a regular basis and they are not abandoned by any means.
We are addressing blacks and the affects of losing grants will have on them. If we see the numbers low now, cutting grants to those who want to attend college is NOT going to help.
My mistake. I thought you were arguing for a decrease in aid monies. Excuse the above.
Well if anyone cares the black community didn't have these problems before the 60s. If you compare the hippie movement to urban culture today. You will see alot of similarities.
Well if anyone cares the black community didn't have these problems before the 60s. If you compare the hippie movement to urban culture today. You will see alot of similarities.
Before the '60s the black community had the problems of crosses being burned in their front yard, voting, lynchings, Jim Crow laws, etc., etc. Did you say you missed American history classes when you were in school, or did you go to school prior to the '60s and the truth was not taught?
I couldn't rep your post, but you get a thumbs up!!!
~ButterBrownBiscuit~
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000
Before the '60s the black community had the problems of crosses being burned in their front yard, voting, lynchings, Jim Crow laws, etc., etc. Did you say you missed American history classes when you were in school, or did you go to school prior to the '60s and the truth was not taught?
Before the '60s the black community had the problems of crosses being burned in their front yard, voting, lynchings, Jim Crow laws, etc., etc. Did you say you missed American history classes when you were in school, or did you go to school prior to the '60s and the truth was not taught?
People on here tend to delete certain parts of American history as they see fit.
Well if anyone cares the black community didn't have these problems before the 60s. If you compare the hippie movement to urban culture today. You will see alot of similarities.
Please see my post above. These problems existed before the 60s as well. In 1960 itself 24% of black children were born to unwed mothers. Which was nearly 10 times the rate of unwed white mothers. Also slavery made a lot of illegitimate black babies prior to the 1950s.
The causes for absentee black fathers are the same as with any other race: dysfunction.
It's a dumb question. I guess that its ok if you wanted to open up yet ONE MORE thread about blacks. But dysfunction is dysfunction....you can't assign a race to it. That's just common sense.
I think it's deeper than just the marriage issue itself. First we have to address why people are no longer interested in the institution of marriage, let alone with the person that they chose to procreate with in the first place.
Heck, maybe take a step further and discuss how people are even getting together and concieving children to begin with...I mean I think we all know how...but perhaps it's time to address just under what circumstances and environments are these decisions being made from the jump.
I don't think the idea of men simply marrying the mother of their children, simply for the sake of statistics is going to help anything. Black folks already have the highest divorce rate...shot gun weddings would just simply elevate that number, plus incidents DV would probably just go up for both genders. And marrying and sticking out for the "sake of the children" never works either.
Good points.
What I don't understand is how & why - in this era where contraceptives are everywhere - people don't seem to take precautions to NOT get pregnant. My wife & I had the exact number of kids we wanted to have, and it wasn't for lack of sex. It's because we took the necessary precautions, and it has been well worth it.
When all the dust has settled, and all the race-baiting is seen through, I think it comes down to personal responsibility.
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