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THis topic has been beat to death with a bamboo stick
It all depends on how you define "absentee." Some black fathers are still "fathers" but they are not in the home, and yet still maintain a authoritative figurehead in the child's lives.
Some cohabitate and reside in the home with their children but they aren't technically married...
Some pay child support, do nothing else, but are considered "responsible fathers" in the legal sense.
Some are in and out of a child's life for whatever reason and are still considered "involved" in their children's lives.
Some are capable, but do nothing, financially, or as a figurehead in the children's lives, but they are still considered the legally responsible sperm donors
Some don't even know that they are fathers for whatever reason...
And as politically incorrect as it is to think it, some black women don't want a man in the home or involved at all because they want to be the sole caretaker of the child and dictate all facets of child rearing and raising...
And some black guys are simply drugged out, pitifully burnt out losers who should have never been married or procreating in the first place.
It's simply a mixture of so many surrounding issues..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynight
Pretty much. And we also had a thread about this last week or the week before from what I remember. I am purplexed at this board's fascination of negro failure, especially when these same posters could care less about black people. Just a backhanded way to diss black people.
Which is why I've avoided this thread thus far. Nothing much to be gained. You have one group blaming welfare and than you have another group who responds by pointing out other groups have high rates of illegitimacy and a round, a round we go.
Frankly both groups are wrong IMHO welfare cannot be the sole or even major reason for the high Black illegitimacy rate since only about a quarter of Blacks are on welfare. Even if all Blacks children born to mothers on welfare were born out of wedlock and all the Black children born to mothers not on welfare are born within matrimony the rate would be 25%, not 72%. This issue crosses class lines.
Nor is it correct to minimize the problem within the African- American community by the childish refrain of, "well other groups have high rates". Ok and? Who is saying illegitimacy is only a Black problem?
The out of wedlock rate in the Black community is driven by several factors, I'd argue a major one is simply that on average Black men have less earning power than Black women. The Black men that do have good earning potential are prone to play the field somewhat. Also as far as dating options high earning Black men are far more likely to date outside their race than similarly situated Black women further reducing Black women's options. So a Black women in her mid 30s looks around after another failed relationship gets ansy ( I have a few female friends, ex-gfs in this situation) but she desperately wants kids. So maybe she decides to have it with this guy or that one but doesn't necessarily want to marry them.
There is a similar phenomonen going on in the African community in America but it's somewhat hidden and because African men have somewhat better earning potential than African- American men not as severe.
However, I know several well educated African women who reach their mid 30s and find themselves alone with few prospects. However one way they get around it is simply going back to their respective country and marrying a guy there and bringing them over here, like that woman who wrote Stella Got Her Groove. Of course that creates a whole new set of problems.
I sympathize with Black women on this issue they are dealing with issues that a lot of non-black women don't have to deal with by and large.
It all depends on how you define "absentee." Some black fathers are still "fathers" but they are not in the home, and yet still maintain a authoritative figurehead in the child's lives.
Some cohabitate and reside in the home with their children but they aren't technically married...
Some pay child support, do nothing else, but are considered "responsible fathers" in the legal sense.
Some are in and out of a child's life for whatever reason and are still considered "involved" in their children's lives.
Some are capable, but do nothing, financially, or as a figurehead in the children's lives, but they are still considered the legally responsible sperm donors
Some don't even know that they are fathers for whatever reason...
And as politically incorrect as it is to think it, some black women don't want a man in the home or involved at all because they want to be the sole caretaker of the child and dictate all facets of child rearing and raising...
And some black guys are simply drugged out, pitifully burnt out losers who should have never been married or procreating in the first place.
It's simply a mixture of so many surrounding issues..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynight
Pretty much. And we also had a thread about this last week or the week before from what I remember. I am purplexed at this board's fascination of negro failure, especially when these same posters could care less about black people. Just a backhanded way to diss black people.
Which is why I've avoided this thread thus far. Nothing much to be gained. You have one group blaming welfare and than you have another group who responds by pointing out other groups have high rates of illegitimacy and a round, a round we go.
Frankly both groups are wrong IMHO welfare cannot be the sole or even major reason for the high Black illegitimacy rate since only about a quarter of Blacks are on welfare. Even if all Blacks children born to mothers on welfare were born out of wedlock and all the Black children born to mothers not on welfare are born within matrimony the rate would be 25%, not 72%. This issue crosses class lines.
Nor is it correct to minimize the problem within the African- American community by the childish refrain of, "well other groups have high rates". Ok and? Who is saying illegitimacy is only a Black problem?
The out of wedlock rate in the Black community is driven by several factors, I'd argue a major one is simply that on average Black men have less earning power than Black women. The Black men that do have good earning potential are prone to play the field somewhat. Also as far as dating options high earning Black men are far more likely to date outside their race than similarly situated Black women further reducing Black women's options. So a Black women in her mid 30s looks around after another failed relationship gets ansy ( I have a few female friends, ex-gfs in this situation) but she desperately wants kids. So maybe she decides to have it with this guy or that one but doesn't necessarily want to marry them.
There is a similar phenomonen going on in the African community in America but it's somewhat hidden and because African men have somewhat better earning potential than African- American men not as severe.
However, I know several well educated African women who reach their mid 30s and find themselves alone with few prospects. However one way they get around it is simply going back to their respective country and marrying a guy there and bringing them over here, like that woman who wrote Stella Got Her Groove. Of course that creates a whole new set of problems.
I sympathize with Black women on this issue they are dealing with issues that a lot of non-black women don't have to deal with by and large.
Mexicans usually marry poor and seem to be quite happy, Mexican women seem to be content with a man trying to better himself, black women want it now... The problem lies with the feminist, highly liberal expecting certain things out of life mindset, you should know this, all the crazy you talk about black Americans you basically answered your own question with your response. These issues of black anger resides from black anger and black women not wanting black men due to broke, or low funded men is a slap in the face to centuries of slavery and imprisonment.
We should learn from the Mexicans they don't watch whites, we watched whites like a obsession and it's not gonna work for us. You're gonna see a lot of 50 year old single black women with kids and no man and men not wanting to marry them because of bad choices she made in the past.
Following white America is not the answer to our problems period, I'm sure conservatives would agree with me completely.
The sexual revolution and the women's liberation movements occurred at pretty much the same time. Women could now be freer with their sexuality and since there were methods available for the women to use to keep from getting pregnant, the responsibility for prevention shifted from the man to the woman. Afterall, in the man's mind, if she didn't accept the responsibility and she still got pregnant, it is her problem! This is true no matter what race the man is.
So maybe the problem is not with black men, but with the black women. Apparently the white woman are more responsible in the contraceptive arena, than are the black women.
I don't think it is a case where there are more black men having sex than are white men on a per capita basis, as much as it is having more unprotected sex. White men do not enjoy using a condom any more than a black man does.
If there is a financial element to this then it is something that can and should be addressed at both ends of the argument for either race. Help for lower income women to have contracepives and limiting help to those that fail to use it and get pregnant.
Mexicans usually marry poor and seem to be quite happy, Mexican women seem to be content with a man trying to better himself, black women want it now... The problem lies with the feminist, highly liberal expecting certain things out of life mindset, you should know this, all the crazy you talk about black Americans you basically answered your own question with your response. These issues of black anger resides from black anger and black women not wanting black men due to broke, or low funded men is a slap in the face to centuries of slavery and imprisonment.
We should learn from the Mexicans they don't watch whites, we watched whites like a obsession and it's not gonna work for us. You're gonna see a lot of 50 year old single black women with kids and no man and men not wanting to marry them because of bad choices she made in the past.
Following white America is not the answer to our problems period, I'm sure conservatives would agree with me completely.
We cannot place this solely all on one gender, but black people have to realize what you say has a lot of truths. It is not just the money part, but the appeal thugs and men with no ambition that adds to the statistics as well. Bottom line, family is not as valued in the US as it is in Latin America and the Caribbean. People in the US too often live for the now, even at the expense of others.
SMH...I guess absent black fathers are absent for different reasons than absent white fathers...Please ask a few and tell me what they say. Let me know if the reason differs between blacks and whites. My guess is poor upbringing (by the father's parent or parents), lack of motivation, inability to care for their child financially, shame, incarceration, drug addiction or maybe they're just *******s but I don't think race has anything to do with it. This goes for absent fathers in general.
There really is no good reason or excuse but if you truly care, go talk to some of the future fathers about it. I went to an event this weekend where a man spoke and said that he mentors teenage boys with absent fathers. He said he spoke with a boy who had been in and out of detention centers and wasn't doing good at the time. He told the boy that he loved him and the boy broke down in tears. The boy said that a male had never told him that he loved him. The man made an effort to continue speaking with the boy and mentoring him. The boy turned his life around and is now getting ready to graduate from college. Hopefully the positive male role model will help to be a good present father later in life. A little time from a positive male role model changed a boys life. Not everyone gets that. When you are surrounded by poverty, family members going to prison and no hope that is life. Some people don't believe there is another way because they have never seen another way (outside of television).
The sexual revolution and the women's liberation movements occurred at pretty much the same time. Women could now be freer with their sexuality and since there were methods available for the women to use to keep from getting pregnant, the responsibility for prevention shifted from the man to the woman. Afterall, in the man's mind, if she didn't accept the responsibility and she still got pregnant, it is her problem! This is true no matter what race the man is.
So maybe the problem is not with black men, but with the black women. Apparently the white woman are more responsible in the contraceptive arena, than are the black women.
I don't think it is a case where there are more black men having sex than are white men on a per capita basis, as much as it is having more unprotected sex. White men do not enjoy using a condom any more than a black man does.
If there is a financial element to this then it is something that can and should be addressed at both ends of the argument for either race. Help for lower income women to have contracepives and limiting help to those that fail to use it and get pregnant.
Sexual aggression is pushed on by society so that's a natural reaction to the high amount of sex, lack of condoms is uncalled for.. Whites are exposed to the same influences but a tighter family structure usually prevents them from experiencing the issues blacks face with kids, crimes and uneducated.
But black women are mostly filled with high standards and bad attitudes due to bitterness at all, not all but some. Life becomes very rough when you start doing the right at 30 instead of 20 and many blacks are in this situation but black women need to stick with black men, stop chasing Becky and look at themselves.
These thugs are filled with rages and anger from a lack of love that momma can't provide at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynight
We cannot place this solely all on one gender, but black people have to realize what you say has a lot of truths. It is not just the money part, but the appeal thugs and men with no ambition that adds to the statistics as well. Bottom line, family is not as valued in the US as it is in Latin America and the Caribbean. People in the US too often live for the now, even at the expense of others.
We cannot place this solely all on one gender, but black people have to realize what you say has a lot of truths. It is not just the money part, but the appeal thugs and men with no ambition that adds to the statistics as well. Bottom line, family is not as valued in the US as it is in Latin America and the Caribbean. People in the US too often live for the now, even at the expense of others.
All this "black people have to realize" talk is BS. Ignorant people who have no hope and live in poverty "need to realize". I am a black woman and I am not on welfare, I am not in prison, I take care of my kids and I work hard for a living. I am not a statistic. If you are concerned, talk to those who are - when you say things like "black people need to realize" you are speaking about an entire race of people as if we are all welfare recipient, criminals who have babies that we don't raise. Clearly a lot of black people know how to be productive upstanding citizens. Most of the ones that don't are not on this forum, so we find these statements offensive. If you care, do something about it. Otherwise stop making offensive remarks on discussion forums. It doesn't help anyone. What do you expect thos of us who take care of our children, work and obey the laws to do? It is your responsibility as much as it is ours.
All this "black people have to realize" talk is BS. Ignorant people who have no hope and live in poverty "need to realize". I am a black woman and I am not on welfare, I am not in prison, I take care of my kids and I work hard for a living. I am not a statistic. If you are concerned, talk to those who are - when you say things like "black people need to realize" you are speaking about an entire race of people as if we are all welfare recipient, criminals who have babies that we don't raise. Clearly a lot of black people know how to be productive upstanding citizens. Most of the ones that don't are not on this forum, so we find these statements offensive. If you care, do something about it. Otherwise stop making offensive remarks on discussion forums. It doesn't help anyone. What do you expect thos of us who take care of our children, work and obey the laws to do? It is your responsibility as much as it is ours.
Umm bay girl...I am black myself and never said most of us are like this. I was just saying is many of these Mexican immigrants have higher value systems, when it comes to family. Not just with black people, but Americans as a whole. By the way, it helps to be analytical about these issues as opposed to putting words in others mouths and being emotional.
Mexicans usually marry poor and seem to be quite happy, Mexican women seem to be content with a man trying to better himself, black women want it now... The problem lies with the feminist, highly liberal expecting certain things out of life mindset, you should know this, all the crazy you talk about black Americans you basically answered your own question with your response. These issues of black anger resides from black anger and black women not wanting black men due to broke, or low funded men is a slap in the face to centuries of slavery and imprisonment.
We should learn from the Mexicans they don't watch whites, we watched whites like a obsession and it's not gonna work for us. You're gonna see a lot of 50 year old single black women with kids and no man and men not wanting to marry them because of bad choices she made in the past.
Following white America is not the answer to our problems period, I'm sure conservatives would agree with me completely.
I agree, and I've said it many times before..I can't put this on the shoulders of just women, because ultimately these men that create the babies also share some responsibility for bringing them into this world.
However, I still think the bottom line is all in who the women decide to lay down with. At the end of the day, the woman has the final say so as to what man has sexual access to her, and whether or not she will even have his child. If you want to see drastic changes in all of this, hthen the women have to make drastic changes in whom they choose to lay down with. And just from my personal observation, a lot of these men have the word "avoid" tattooed on their foreheads, and you can see disaster written on them from a mile away. But for some odd reason a lot of these women are still attracted to them.
Umm bay girl...I am black myself and never said most of us are not like this. I was just saying is many of these Mexican immigrants have higher value systems, when it comes to family. Not just with black people, but Americans as a whole. By the way, it helps to be analytical about these issues as opposed to putting words in others mouths and being emotional.
I apologize, I just jumped in on the thread - I realized that you were not saying this when I read back a few pages. I am just tired of all black people getting blamed for what some black people do wrong.
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