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Old 11-23-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,582,425 times
Reputation: 9030

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
As my youngest daugther would say, if there are no jobs, move someplace where there are more, get some training and stop bitching...
That idea is just plain and simple dumb. If I have heard it once I habe heard it ten thousand times.
The facts of the matter are that a huge % of our workers work in low paying service type jobs. For many of them there is no up from here possibility. There are many reasons for that. Maybe they only have an IQ of 80 or so and a base level employment is all they will ever be able to do. There are a lot of other reasons for it also. The fact of the matter is that we should value all work and all workers. It's very clear we do not and that is really terrible. Because the employers will never pay these people any more than is legally required the minimum wage should be raised to at least $10 per hour.

One week as I was travelling about I was in a MacDonalds in Alabama. Talking to the employees I found out these people made something like $4 an hour and almost no benefits at all. They were in a bad spot. No healthcare, could not afford to live in anything better than a shack, no car, etc etc. They all expressed that they hated working there.

A few days later I was having my coffee and muffin in a MacDonalds in Calgary Alberta. I was talking to a young woman who worked there. She made $20 an hour, had a full benefit plan, complete healthcare coverage. She lived in a nice apt. at least that's what she said, had a nice car and she liked working at the place.

The quality of everything in these two restaurants was about equal. The Canadian prices were a little higher but that is almost always the case in everything.

If you Americans like having these "wage slaves" then YOU CAN HAVE THEM. I don't want them here in my country. I really don't like the exploitation of anyone but more than that I don't like the associated costs of having millions of wage slaves in my country. I hate the American slums that cover the land, I hate a crime rate that is 7 times higher than Canada's. I hate the unhappiness and constant crying and wailing in American affairs. One of the biggest roots of all these problems is that hardworking people are not paid enough to keep body and soul together and that makes your country look BAD in the extreme.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:14 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,020,248 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
But the Waltons made their money on the backs of the poor people working for them---in other words by exploiting them. They're not breaking the law, but they are coporate leeches, leeching the life-blood of their low-paid employees in order to add to their already stratospheric wealth.

The combined fortunes of the 4 richest Waltons is about $120 Billion --- an unfathomable amount of wealth that no one can spend in 10 lifetimes. They could pay their employees fairly and instead of having a fortune of $120 Billion, have say a fortune of $60 Billion --- also a fortune that no one can spend in 10 lifetimes.

But using your logic you would rather have a handful of heirs have billions of dollars in their pockets and thousands of hard-working employees live hard-scrabble existences relying on public assistance. You may think that's great, but I don't.

The Richest People in America - Forbes
The same can be said about EVERY company. So? You (and all the others who think like this) want what the owners of these companies have? I'll give you the big,hidden secret... Listen close so nobody else hears it.... (whisper) get off the idea somebody should give you theirs and go WORK FOR IT.
Do ya think Bill Gates or Michael Dell were born rich? Do you think Sam Walton was born into all his wealth?
No, they busted their arse and made it themselves.
Jeeze, this "I don't have XXXX so gimmie yours since I think you've got enough" is going to be the death of this country!
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,796,716 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
That idea is just plain and simple dumb. If I have heard it once I habe heard it ten thousand times.
The facts of the matter are that a huge % of our workers work in low paying service type jobs. For many of them there is no up from here possibility. There are many reasons for that. Maybe they only have an IQ of 80 or so and a base level employment is all they will ever be able to do. There are a lot of other reasons for it also. The fact of the matter is that we should value all work and all workers. It's very clear we do not and that is really terrible. Because the employers will never pay these people any more than is legally required the minimum wage should be raised to at least $10 per hour.

One week as I was travelling about I was in a MacDonalds in Alabama. Talking to the employees I found out these people made something like $4 an hour and almost no benefits at all. They were in a bad spot. No healthcare, could not afford to live in anything better than a shack, no car, etc etc. They all expressed that they hated working there.

A few days later I was having my coffee and muffin in a MacDonalds in Calgary Alberta. I was talking to a young woman who worked there. She made $20 an hour, had a full benefit plan, complete healthcare coverage. She lived in a nice apt. at least that's what she said, had a nice car and she liked working at the place.

The quality of everything in these two restaurants was about equal. The Canadian prices were a little higher but that is almost always the case in everything.

If you Americans like having these "wage slaves" then YOU CAN HAVE THEM. I don't want them here in my country. I really don't like the exploitation of anyone but more than that I don't like the associated costs of having millions of wage slaves in my country. I hate the American slums that cover the land, I hate a crime rate that is 7 times higher than Canada's. I hate the unhappiness and constant crying and wailing in American affairs. One of the biggest roots of all these problems is that hardworking people are not paid enough to keep body and soul together and that makes your country look BAD in the extreme.
Minimum wage in the US is $7.25/hr for non-tipped workers, which a McDonald's worker is. Alabama's minimum wage is the US minimum wage. The story sounds quite bleak and possibly exaggerated, and lots of people say they hate their jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

The Canadian story sounds a little rosy. Minimum wage in Ablerta is $9.75, apparently raised just this July (2012).

It's possible the Canadian worker simply had a better attitude about her job than the storeful of people you supposedly talked to in Alabama.

List of minimum wages in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to get into a discussion of minimum wage and whether it should be raised, should McDonald's provide benefits (I think it should), that is a different topic.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:33 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,473,584 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
That idea is just plain and simple dumb. If I have heard it once I habe heard it ten thousand times.
The facts of the matter are that a huge % of our workers work in low paying service type jobs. For many of them there is no up from here possibility. There are many reasons for that. Maybe they only have an IQ of 80 or so and a base level employment is all they will ever be able to do. There are a lot of other reasons for it also. The fact of the matter is that we should value all work and all workers. It's very clear we do not and that is really terrible. Because the employers will never pay these people any more than is legally required the minimum wage should be raised to at least $10 per hour.

One week as I was travelling about I was in a MacDonalds in Alabama. Talking to the employees I found out these people made something like $4 an hour and almost no benefits at all. They were in a bad spot. No healthcare, could not afford to live in anything better than a shack, no car, etc etc. They all expressed that they hated working there.

A few days later I was having my coffee and muffin in a MacDonalds in Calgary Alberta. I was talking to a young woman who worked there. She made $20 an hour, had a full benefit plan, complete healthcare coverage. She lived in a nice apt. at least that's what she said, had a nice car and she liked working at the place.

The quality of everything in these two restaurants was about equal. The Canadian prices were a little higher but that is almost always the case in everything.

If you Americans like having these "wage slaves" then YOU CAN HAVE THEM. I don't want them here in my country. I really don't like the exploitation of anyone but more than that I don't like the associated costs of having millions of wage slaves in my country. I hate the American slums that cover the land, I hate a crime rate that is 7 times higher than Canada's. I hate the unhappiness and constant crying and wailing in American affairs. One of the biggest roots of all these problems is that hardworking people are not paid enough to keep body and soul together and that makes your country look BAD in the extreme.
$4/hour huh...

LOL. You people kill me.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:36 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,736,756 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
What? A corporation makes money for it's shareholders? You gotta be kidding me. I guess you shoulda bought some shares instead of whining and crying about it.

You know the average person buying shares will not beable to buy enough if any to reap enough benefits to overcome the detriments that a WalMart provides to society.

I would Use the oppurtunity cost from not buying a share of walmart to shopping at a small business instead.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,416 posts, read 60,608,674 times
Reputation: 61030
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBen View Post
You know the average person buying shares will not beable to buy enough if any to reap enough benefits to overcome the detriments that a WalMart provides to society.

I would Use the oppurtunity cost from not buying a share of walmart to shopping at a small business instead.
For which you would likely get just as crappy service and much higher prices.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:42 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,150,886 times
Reputation: 12920
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBen View Post
You know the average person buying shares will not beable to buy enough if any to reap enough benefits to overcome the detriments that a WalMart provides to society.

I would Use the oppurtunity cost from not buying a share of walmart to shopping at a small business instead.
That's called voting with your money. It only works if you can get others to vote in the same manner. With voting, majority rules.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,896,568 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
$4/hour huh...

LOL. You people kill me.
Do people understand that posting fiction kinda undermines your credibility.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,772,037 times
Reputation: 49248
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Since your main point is incorrect, why should anyone address it?

The Walton heirs have created their own companies, they have numerous charities, they sit on literally dozens of boards. Sam Walton taught his children to WORK. Your "understanding" of what they do is based on misinformation.

Are they wealthy? Yes. That's what happens in an American Success Story. Sam Walton starts out with virtually nothing. He marries a solid middle-class girl. He borrows some money from his father-in-law to get started, in his case in retail. When his wife's parents die, he uses her modest inheritance to open his first store. He recognizes an unfilled niche in retail, the rural market, and he capitalizes on it to build a successful chain of stores. He makes a fortune. And the friends and employees who started out with him make fortunes too. When he dies, he leaves an impressive estate. His children use the money to open their own businesses, or to expand businesses. His children use the money to endow the arts and education for their communities. His children use the money they were left to make more money. If Gates had children, that's what would happen with his kids. It happened with the Rockefellers.

The criticism of Wal-Mart is a meme. Retail work is not a lucrative profession. It doesn't matter if you work at Wal-Mart, Lowes, Macy's, K-Mart, Home Depot, Target, Dillards, or Nordstrom's. If you're a clerk at a retail store, any retail store, chances are you're not making much more than minimum wage. Wal-Mart does NOT pay its workers less than other retailers. While there are regional differentiations in pay scales around the country, Wal-Mart pay is competitive and in-line with other retailers in those same regions. And Wal-Mart has always offered its employees stock at reduced prices, and it's insurance/benefits packages have been similar to other retailers.

Rather than the Cost of Wal-Mart, the studies should be entitled the Cost of RETAIL. Because the problems with Wal-Mart are simply the problems of the retail industry. And for those of you who think the big bad Wal-Mart should be replaced with mom-and-pop's, think again. Mom-and-pop stores paid even lower wages, with much fewer benefits, and charged their customers significantly higher prices. Mom-and-pop stores are not an improvement over Wal-Mart economically, though they may be aesthetically more appealing.
Excellant post. I can't rep you, I need to spread it around.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,896,568 times
Reputation: 11259
The enormous consumer surplus Walmart consumers enjoy makes Walmart quite possibly the greatest company in the history of mankind.
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