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Old 11-28-2012, 08:05 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,393,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
You don't think you should at least go through puberty first? I think people aren't saying that being transgendered doesn't exist, they're just saying maybe when your age is measured in a single digit it's a little early to be making those kinds of decisions.
No, it's better to delay puberty with hormone blockers if we want to save transgender teens lives. About 50% of transgender kids attempt suicide when going through puberty.

If they later elect for gender reassignment surgery, secondary sexual characterics won't already have already been developed (height, breasts & hips, musculature etc).

 
Old 11-28-2012, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
1,329 posts, read 832,871 times
Reputation: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
Gender identity disorder : where it is OK to change your physical appearance to match what your mind says, but wrong to change the brain to be what your body says.

More liberal logic!! (aka hypocrisy)
It's not "Wrong" to change ones brain to match ones body, this is a strawman (BTW, i know many transgender individuals). But nobody knows how to do this so far, and given the nature of our society's respect for personal autonomy, its not even clear it would be desireable to do so.
 
Old 11-28-2012, 08:08 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,393,354 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
No its not.

We are born with genes & DNA that tells us if we are male or female. Some things are indoctrinated.
Please educate yourself before telling other more educated people they are 'indoctrinated"

Sexual hormones and the brain: an essential alliance for sexual identity and sexual orientation (2010)
Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35. Epub 2009 Nov 24. Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF.


The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb.

However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain.

There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation
 
Old 11-28-2012, 09:03 PM
 
18,836 posts, read 37,380,609 times
Reputation: 26469
Anyone who has raised a gay child knows ^^^this to be true. My son, now 24, always preferred "girl" things. He wanted an Easy Bake oven, when his brothers wanted Tonka Trucks and Ninja Swords. He actually colored his Ninja Sword with markers to make it "prettier". This was at age 5.

He did not ever say he wanted to be a girl, he is not transexual, but he did ask me once if I thought he was "weird", because he was not at all like his brothers...even he knew he was "different", at age 10!

I don't think this is the parents wanting a daughter. This is open minded parents, allowing their son to be who he is...

That being said...the judge is correct in the ruling. Society, especially, school, is not ready for this child to be who he is...
 
Old 11-28-2012, 09:20 PM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,782,559 times
Reputation: 7020
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
Gender identity disorder : where it is OK to change your physical appearance to match what your mind says, but wrong to change the brain to be what your body says.

More liberal logic!! (aka hypocrisy)
The body is medically capable of being changed. The brain is not.
 
Old 11-28-2012, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,938,716 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prytania View Post
That is a Lie. Success rate for SRS is near 98%
It is not a lie and it does depend on how one defines "sucess". I've been Googling this right now and it appears I am working with outdated numbers but there is this: "(4) A long-term failure rate of 50 percent has been reported for M-to-F transsexual surgery, failure being defined as a blocked or otherwise nonfunctional vagina. Some of the unsuccessful cases date from many years ago, when surgical techniques were less sophisticated and patients were not screened. Biber says his long-term success rate is higher, but typically short-term failure rates run in the neighborhood of 20 percent--a high percentage, it seems to me, for cosmetic surgery on a physiologically normal organ." - The Straight Dope Sept 8, 2000

That's just one source. Still it is an overstatement to say 98% of sex reassignments are successful. And there is the cost... how many GID patients can even afford the cost of SRS?? Surely not anywhere close to the majority of such people in the U.S. Breast implants cost $5K to $10K and we know how many women are unhappy with how their work turned out. Elective medicine in the U.S. is some of the most expensive in the world with some of the most so-so outcomes in the world. You have to be an A-List celebrity or Sports star to really afford decent work.

My eyesight is 20/85 corrected and I can spot a pre or post-op transexual at 20 paces. So can most adults. Children I am told are even better at it. We are intensely physical and sexual beings. Gender matters. I get that. Before there was SRS. I mean like 200 years ago. What do you think GID people do? They didn't all kill themselves. Some did, I imagine but most didn't. And they didn't even have hormones to help. Big Pharma has made hormones and that is that for the vast majority of GID people. They will be taking these hormones for the rest of their lives $$$. Even if they can afford surgery $$$$ they will also need hormones for life $$$.

I am neither impressed with the quality of the hormones or the quality of medical care in the U.S. so as to encourage any child of mine who wanted SRS. It would be a fight and a half before I would concede defeat. Parents who let their 5 year olds wear dresses need a hit upside the head. Children say and do all kinds of things. They are children. 10,000 years ago it was the parents job to teach their male kids how to hunt. Imagine if the kid said it would rather stay in the cave and play with dolls? My point? If SRS simply was not an option. GID people and the people who love them would have to find another way. Given that in 2012 that way is still very expensive and fraught with challenges I cannot agree that it should be the first avenue explored.

H
 
Old 11-28-2012, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,938,716 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Actually female to male surgery is already a reality. Phalloplasty, where skin is taken from another place, generally the inner thigh. Erection is made possible using the same methods that men with ed use.
I know its a reality but... what you described... would you call that an unqualified success as SRS? The same methods men with ed use? I don't think so. Men with ED use Viagra or Cialis or Levitra. No amount of Levitra is going to levitate translocated thigh tissue. So you have to use some kind of pump thing... you do realize that most don't bother. And good thing too. I understand that in a lot of those surgeries the whole business just rots off. And no, you aren't getting a refund if that happens. Sadly I don't see this changing. The medical and pharmaceutical community is satisfied with the level of profit they can make with the status quo technology. The U.S. medical community. Elsewhere things might improve.

H
 
Old 11-28-2012, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,938,716 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
No, it's better to delay puberty with hormone blockers if we want to save transgender teens lives. About 50% of transgender kids attempt suicide when going through puberty.

If they later elect for gender reassignment surgery, secondary sexual characterics won't already have already been developed (height, breasts & hips, musculature etc).
You cannot tell me that there isn't going to be some collateral mental damage from having something as significant as puberty chemically delayed for as much as six or more years. A GID person wants to be the opposite sex they don't want to be a neuter. You can't have it both ways. Put the kid in cryogenic storage for six years in that case. Thaw them out in six years, they will technically be six years older. Actually, I knew a girl whose pituitary gland was damaged during surgery to remove a brain tumor. She got so distraught over her lack of physical development relative to her sister and friends that her doctors actually had to give her hormones so that she would sort of go through a puberty.

H
 
Old 11-28-2012, 11:04 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,204,963 times
Reputation: 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
What parent in their right mind would let their kids be a transgender?
It's in Maine. That's part of your problem right there.
 
Old 11-28-2012, 11:07 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,685,125 times
Reputation: 7943
I like these discussions about sexuality and gender. It's always enlightening to see which responses sound informed, and which ones just sound ignorant.
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