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I think it's just people that don't feel comfortable actually asking black people themselves about these issues in person, so they just take the easy way out and do it on an online forum.
I mean, there has to be a reason why in all of my 47 years, no one has ever said any of the more insulting stuff to me personally, and yet, it's all over the Internet. Of course, i don't blame them. I wouldn't say that stuff to me either. But still, it just reeks of cowardice in my book.
You hit the nail on the head. In the real world there are consequences and on the Internet there isn't. Most racist are cowards...
white folks sure love Thomas Sowell, he's like one of the top tokens of all time
Are you saying that you don't like Thomas Sowell?
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And if blacks acted white is a load of crap, blacks didn't act anywhere near how the young culture acts now back in the 50's and racism was still alive and kicking, hosed down, seperate water fountains you name it, getting put to death for saying hello to a white women...
You fail to recognize the great strides that blacks were making during those times. The reason why the Civil Rights movement even came about, was because the majority of whites supported it. It was never an argument about whites vs blacks, it was actually an argument between whites. And the reason whites supported the Civil Rights movement, was because blacks made the case that they are just like everyone else. They made the case that they were as American as anyone else. That they fought and bled for this country, that they toiled for this country, and should enjoy the protections as other Americans.
Blacks didn't get Civil Rights because of people like Malcolm X. Where the nation of Islam is calling for separation in black nationalism. Blacks changed the world by saying "we are one of you". And then they turned around in following years and said "we are no longer one of you".
Moreover, the term uncle Tom I always found to be a bit puzzling as well. Because Uncle Tom was effectively the hero of a story that was greatly linked with ending slavery. Without the "Uncle Tom's", who wanted to be educated and basically act white. You would still be in chains.
The best path ahead is to break down the walls that divide us. And as long as blacks continue to move themselves away from mainstream culture, you are perpetuating the divide in this country.
Whether or not if all blacks "acted white" would eliminate all racism tomorrow isn't the question.
The question is whether or not racism would be greatly diminished if blacks acted white. And I don't think anyone could argue that that wouldn't be the case. Just like racism towards Hispanics would greatly diminish if they learned how to speak English and started "acting white".
The truth is, race is really a fixture of a culture war. Where each group wants to mold the country in their own image. That includes people of difference races, but also religions, and even political leanings. It is a fight over the soul of this country, and no one wants to concede.
The question to me is really, what is the best outcome for this country?
For instance, if blacks effectively were to get their way, and America basically was created in the image of black culture. Would this be a country you would want to live in?
In my opinion, the dominant culture is white American culture, and it is far superior to the minority cultures in this country. If Hispanics and blacks simply moved towards white American culture, they would be better off, and we would be better off. And racism would largely diminish, because there would be no philosophical foundation for it.
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I remember your rant on why are women allowed to vote... dude you're a 1950's old school hack who want women in the kitchen and on the bed to make babies and blacks far, far away from you.
The question in regards to women voting, was not about keeping them in the kitchen. The question about women voting, was whether or not women voting affects elections, and in what ways? Moreover, does the voting pattern of women better the quality of life of women? Does the voting pattern of blacks better their quality of life?
Women are less happy today than they were in the past, while men are happier today than they were in the past. Thus you must conclude that women have not voted in their own interests.
The same can be said for blacks. I do not believe blacks have voted in their own interests. It doesn't matter what their intent was by supporting certain types of legislation. The outcomes of those policies have not benefited the majority of blacks. But have rather destroyed the black family, and left many blacks dependent and in poverty. And things like the war on drugs has helped to justify racism rather than destroy it.
In my opinion, the dominant culture is white American culture, and it is far superior to the minority cultures in this country. If Hispanics and blacks simply moved towards white American culture, they would be better off, and we would be better off. And racism would largely diminish, because there would be no philosophical foundation for it.
" the dominant culture is white American culture"
Interesting points although more simplistic than what it actually is. Sounds like a text book look at Human Sociological dynamics. I know where your getting at, as humans are competive and tribal, and who doesn't look at thier tribe as best? My only arguement is when you say "white American culture" I believe it should say "American culture" as what we have today is not English culture, Chinese, Swedish, Spanish, Egyptian or Somalian culture, it is it's own. If you want to put a white only face on it would not be correct as every group here contributes to our make up.
" the dominant culture is white American culture"
Interesting points although more simplistic than what it actually is. Sounds like a text book look at Human Sociological dynamics. I know where your getting at, as humans are competive and tribal, and who doesn't look at thier tribe as best? My only arguement is when you say "white American culture" I believe it should say "American culture" as what we have today is not English culture, Chinese, Swedish, Spanish, Egyptian or Somalian culture, it is it's own. If you want to put a white only face on it would not be correct as every group here contributes to our make up.
Well, I felt like "white American culture" was the best way to describe it. American culture could also represent "ghetto American culture", or "mexican-american culture" or "native American culture", etc. White American culture might even be better named "mainstream American culture", but mainstream American culture might be interpreted different ways as well. I actually think the most appropriate term might even be, Traditional White American Christian culture.
My point is, ghetto American culture is not good, I would not want to live in a world where everyone adhered to such a culture. Nor would I want to live in a world where everyone adhered to Arab culture. I'm not arguing that white American culture is absolutely the best, but it is hard to find what it is actually better. And I think by multi-culturalists trying to argue that all cultures are equal and good. Not only is it simply not true, it is also dangerous.
When economists look at what countries are successful in the world, and which countries are failures. The largest gap comes from the structure of the government, and the culture itself.
It would be very easy to export prosperity just by exporting a system of government that works, and people adopting a culture that works. I always look at it like, what if the United States annexed Kenya tomorrow, and it became the 51st state. Fast-forward 10 years, is Kenya better off or worse off? It would be ridiculous to believe that Kenya wouldn't be better off.
Look at it this way, if every white baby was taken from their home and put in the care of black parents. And every black baby was taken from their home and put in the care of white parents. I would bet money that the black children living in white families would end up better off on average than the white kids living with black parents.
This isn't a condemnation of people, but rather a condemnation of a culture. It is a condemnation of the values instilled in black children by black parents and other people around them. It is ridiculous for a person to believe that blacks are better off because they refuse to "act white".
In my view, the great strides blacks have made, have come almost entirely from where they have become "more white".
I mean, you have to only go so far as the supposedly racist Republican party to see this in action.
The Republicans love a well-spoken black person. If its a well-spoken black woman married to a white man in Utah, you can't get any better than that.
Republicans don't dislike Obama necessarily. But Obama basically came out and said he has always hated America, until he became president. He blames the problems of Africa and the world on European imperialism. He went to a black church which constantly spewed hatred towards white people.... He plays the race card constantly. Says white cops act stupidly for arresting a black man. Takes sides in the Trayvon Martin case because he believes that Trayvon would look like his son.
I don't see how Obama is helping the racial divide in this country. He is making it worse. Then the fact that you have people like Samuel L. Jackson coming out and saying that he is going to vote for Obama simply because he is black, and that that is perfectly acceptable because other people vote for people who look like them, and no one seems to care.
Do you think people like Samuel L. Jackson and Obama are going to end racism? Because I don't.
I feel like racism will only end with people like Mia Love or Condoleezza Rice or Colin Powell.
But those are the types of people that democrats tend to attack as basically uncle tom's, or traitors to their race. Basically arguing that any black person who is a conservative is nothing but a tool of the Republican party, and is too stupid to realize it.
In my view, the great strides blacks have made, have come almost entirely from where they have become "more white".
that's because in the white american culture, success is attributed to whites and those around them. blacks are associated with negativity, wrongdoing, evil, backwardness and any of their accomplishments and successes is owed in some part by whites who allowed them to be there or helped them out (even if that's not the case) etc.
I say this time and time again,but if blacks started acting white,nothing would change.
Whites seem afraid of the physical appearance of blacks.
I don't know why,but some whites just seem uncomfortable even when the pblack person is well spoken and dressed nice.
You fail to recognize the great strides that blacks were making during those times. The reason why the Civil Rights movement even came about, was because the majority of whites supported it. It was never an argument about whites vs blacks, it was actually an argument between whites. And the reason whites supported the Civil Rights movement, was because blacks made the case that they are just like everyone else. They made the case that they were as American as anyone else. That they fought and bled for this country, that they toiled for this country, and should enjoy the protections as other Americans.
The majority of whites were'nt in favor of equal rights for blacks, the majority.. like the majority of you guys on CD felt blacks weren't civilized enough nor ready enough to live amoung white america, what pushed equal rights for blacks was almost the same thing that pushed equality for women. Remember that by allowing blacks and women into the workforce companies basically lowered the wages which benefited profits as well for those companies, you can make a strong case "equality" is just a code name for "lower wages and increased profits".
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Blacks didn't get Civil Rights because of people like Malcolm X. Where the nation of Islam is calling for separation in black nationalism. Blacks changed the world by saying "we are one of you". And then they turned around in following years and said "we are no longer one of you".
Moreover, the term uncle Tom I always found to be a bit puzzling as well. Because Uncle Tom was effectively the hero of a story that was greatly linked with ending slavery. Without the "Uncle Tom's", who wanted to be educated and basically act white. You would still be in chains.
Malcolm X, Martin Luther King were just a mouthpiece, much more vocal to Al Sharpton and JJ today, they just riled up the people to gain support, America benefited greatly from "freeing" the blacks, you may hate it but your government loved it, same with women. Increasing the workforce benefited greatly...
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The best path ahead is to break down the walls that divide us. And as long as blacks continue to move themselves away from mainstream culture, you are perpetuating the divide in this country.
Whether or not if all blacks "acted white" would eliminate all racism tomorrow isn't the question.
The question is whether or not racism would be greatly diminished if blacks acted white. And I don't think anyone could argue that that wouldn't be the case. Just like racism towards Hispanics would greatly diminish if they learned how to speak English and started "acting white".
The truth is, race is really a fixture of a culture war. Where each group wants to mold the country in their own image. That includes people of difference races, but also religions, and even political leanings. It is a fight over the soul of this country, and no one wants to concede.
Emmitt Till didn't act black back then and he died for whistling at a white women, there was no lil wayne, no n-i-g-g-a as a term of brotherhood, no tatoed up freak rappers and he got dealt with, they were hung from trees then just from the color of their skin so I don't see your point. The reality is black is different from white and that's all that's needed to drive the skinheads and the racist crazy, even if I spoke proper english would you really consider me your equal?
And I don't know what black culture is, I got to work and see tons of education black people acting properly... the problem is you don't see that and that's where you fail at.
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T
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
he question to me is really, what is the best outcome for this country?
For instance, if blacks effectively were to get their way, and America basically was created in the image of black culture. Would this be a country you would want to live in?
In my opinion, the dominant culture is white American culture, and it is far superior to the minority cultures in this country. If Hispanics and blacks simply moved towards white American culture, they would be better off, and we would be better off. And racism would largely diminish, because there would be no philosophical foundation for it.
YOu'll have to explain white culture, you can say you borrowed "white culture" from a group of people almost damn near extinction. What's black culture? rap music, gold teeth, drugs? How did those drugs get there to those poor blacks back in the 70's in the first place? It's two sides to every story, if I post some youtube videos you and your buddies would consider it fake anyways.
Keep in mind as much as you hate Clinton for Nafta things are rarely done one sided in America, both Reps and Dems usually decide, in other words as big and bad as America really is, free trade came into play for a damn good reason, America... cannot stand on it's own 100% period. Those same blacks you say are the problem, I can say those same white men who can care less about race but only see profits shipping jobs to china and bringing in all their crap is just as much as a problem.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The question in regards to women voting, was not about keeping them in the kitchen. The question about women voting, was whether or not women voting affects elections, and in what ways? Moreover, does the voting pattern of women better the quality of life of women? Does the voting pattern of blacks better their quality of life?
Women are less happy today than they were in the past, while men are happier today than they were in the past. Thus you must conclude that women have not voted in their own interests.
The same can be said for blacks. I do not believe blacks have voted in their own interests. It doesn't matter what their intent was by supporting certain types of legislation. The outcomes of those policies have not benefited the majority of blacks. But have rather destroyed the black family, and left many blacks dependent and in poverty. And things like the war on drugs has helped to justify racism rather than destroy it.
As a single man, I hate what modern women have become, I believe it's harder to get women these days due to them having increased standards for men but to say they're less happy today is laughable.. women are free....totally free.. they're not tied down to a man, failed marriage, wife beater, they're free to leave and walk away, free to work, free to do what and whatever they please and denying that is laughable.
Before women where allowed in colleges, they were only allowed to take classes in sowing and how to be a mother, that's a pretty miserable life if you ask me, treated like a piece of meat 24-7.
As for blacks voting in their best interest, that's debatable... When we live under republican rules, we actually make less money, under dems we do better financially... maybe you should shake hands with real blacks who actually work instead of seeing them in handcuffs on tv thinking why?
Older black folks hated Reagen, to this day they still joke about how horrible he was for blacks...
Not much more to really say, the war on drugs, the cutting of social programs with a very small black middle class in the 80s, the "welfare queens" comments....
And alot of these is what modern republicans want today.
that's because in the white american culture, success is attributed to whites and those around them. blacks are associated with negativity, wrongdoing, evil, backwardness and any of their accomplishments and successes is owed in some part by whites who allowed them to be there or helped them out (even if that's not the case) etc.
Well, I think the problem with white and black accomplishments in regards to blacks. Is that there are too many people obsessing about black inventors. Mostly in an attempt to promote blacks to be more accepted by whites. There are lists of black inventors, no such list exists for white inventors. There are just inventions, and most of them are by white people.
The problem with black people, is that they tend to feel self-conscious of the fact that almost all inventions and technology historically have come from Europeans. They feel like history is white-washed and tilted to promote Europeans, while undervaluing accomplishments basically by everyone else.
Blacks see themselves as a separate group, and they want to promote their own groups by focusing around what they see as their own people. And many egalitarian types, who want blacks to seen more as equals, and who have good intentions, will also promote blacks in much of the same way.
Either by promoting black inventors, or by promoting Africans themselves, or African culture, and civilization.
And while I understand that their intentions are good, they are trying to say "see Africans are good to, Africans are smart to, etc etc". The problem I have is that the result of such a policy isn't what was intended.
The result of such a policy, is to reinforce the idea that blacks are a distinct group from everyone else. While also insinuating that whites don't treat blacks fairly, and that whites always skew history in their favor. While ignoring the fact that the history being produced to promote blacks, is also skewed in their favor.
I liked Morgan Freeman when he talked about "Black history month". He basically said, black history is American history. And I agree. I don't believe creating some special month to promote Africans as separate from everyone else, does anything to solve racism. In my opinion, it serves racism.
I say this time and time again,but if blacks started acting white,nothing would change.
Whites seem afraid of the physical appearance of blacks.
I don't know why,but some whites just seem uncomfortable even when the pblack person is well spoken and dressed nice.
I agree with you and disagree with you. It is certainly true that there will always be whites who don't like black people, regardless of if blacks changed their behavior or not. These are what I would consider to be "hostile racists" or "intentional racists".
On the other hand, I think a large percentage of racists are really "non-hostile" or "circumstantial/intellectual racists". Basically, they aren't racists in the sense that they dislike people because of the color of their skin. But rather they are racially biased, because perceive that different races have certain tendencies.
There are many documentaries that discuss "racism" in America, which shows that most people don't even see themselves as racists in a real sense. But they associate blacks with crime, so they are more likely to be keenly aware of their presence. And tend to rather live in places far removed from blacks, whom they associate with crime.
I always think of it like walking down a street, on one side of the street is a white guy, and the other side of the street is a black guy. Which side of the street do you walk down?
Even Jesse Jackson himself said this.... "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating."
This form of racism is what I might call "intellectual" racism. Because it is based on an interpretation of facts and reality. Jesse Jackson was basically acknowledging that because of the rate of black crime, that he is relieved to see a white person, because he basically feels safe around white people.
Is Jesse Jackson a racist? Why? Is it because of whites exaggerating black crimes? Would Jesse Jackson feel differently if it had been a Hispanic or an Asian?
Look, the reason why whites are "scared" of blacks, is because blacks commit crimes are high rates, and tend to generally be more hostile towards whites. Jesse Jackson understands that, I'm sure Al Sharpton understands it even if he refuses to say it in public. If blacks embraced mainstream white culture, would it end racism immediately? No. But if they continued that trend, you would see a drop in crime rates by blacks, you would see more blacks graduating from school, and there would be a growing amount of respect between whites and blacks. Until the philosophical foundation of "intellectual racism" was destroyed.
The truth is, black/ghetto culture justifies racism, because it reinforces negative stereotypes of blacks. If you destroy black culture, then there is basically no justification for racism. If you stop "promoting the black race" by separating their accomplishments from whites, then you really undermine the philosophy of race itself.
Redshadowz. Ok. Beneath that kumbayah veneer is yet another steaming pile of horse manure. It's like adding fabreeze to a dog poop.
Let me let you in on a little secret. People claim to be educated, yet they fail to realize that the "ghetto culture" you deride has more to do about social class than it does about the race itself. Blacks (or Hispanics, or any minority for that matter) aren't inherently ghetto. It's the environment that they are in. Blacks who are more well off don't behave stereotypically "ghetto" because they aren't in a ghetto. Duh. It has nothing to do with "acting white". IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CLASS. I'm sure Martha's Vineyard has drive bys every Saturday. And you'd better clutch your purse too when you're in Teaneck NJ, because even though the homes are $$$$, you WILL get robbed simply because the people are Black. If you're going to compare White culture and cherrypick the negative aspects of Black culture, compare apples to apples. I'm sure Honey Boo Boo's family is the "superior" White culture at its finest.
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