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The majority of whites were'nt in favor of equal rights for blacks, the majority.. like the majority of you guys on CD felt blacks weren't civilized enough nor ready enough to live amoung white america, what pushed equal rights for blacks was almost the same thing that pushed equality for women. Remember that by allowing blacks and women into the workforce companies basically lowered the wages which benefited profits as well for those companies, you can make a strong case "equality" is just a code name for "lower wages and increased profits".
In 1960, the population of the United States was about 179 million. Around 152 million were white(85%), and 19 million were black(10.6%).The Civil Rights act of 1964 passed the senate with a vote of 73-27.
Basically, 73% of our elected representatives voted in favor of the bill, which I assume corresponds to a similar percentage of the people. If every non-minority supported the bill, that would mean 27 million(15%) minorities supported the bill. That means roughly 58% of whites had to have supported the Civil Rights act. And more likely than not, the number of whites supporting the Civil Rights act was actually higher, being that whites are far more likely to vote than minorities.
So it is simply not true that a majority of whites didn't support equal rights for blacks. And had whites not heavily supported rights for blacks, they wouldn't have gotten them. If whites didn't want to end slavery, it wouldn't have ended. If whites didn't want to give blacks the right to vote, they wouldn't have ever had the right to vote. This whole notion the battle over rights is about whites vs blacks, is simply nonsense. The battle has always been between whites and other whites.
To this day whites are the vast majority of the people in this country. If this was really an issue of whites vs minorities, we could effectively strip away all of your rights right now. Seven of the nine Supreme Court justices are even white. It is ridiculous for you to frame this argument as if it were blacks vs whites. Its not, it is really a battle of culture and values. It is a battle of who we are as a people.
The reason they passed the "Chinese exclusion act", wasn't because they were racist against Chinese people. It was because they felt that the Chinese culture was inferior to white culture, and that Chinese women being brought to America were undermining traditional marriage. Because, Chinese women were completely subservient to Chinese men in their culture. About half of all Chinese women that came to America during the late 1800's became prostitutes.
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Malcolm X, Martin Luther King were just a mouthpiece, much more vocal to Al Sharpton and JJ today, they just riled up the people to gain support, America benefited greatly from "freeing" the blacks, you may hate it but your government loved it, same with women. Increasing the workforce benefited greatly...
Malcolm X and Martin Luther King weren't freeing the blacks. I think slavery was the worst thing that could happen to America, and in my opinion, I think slavery was far more harmful to whites than it was to blacks.
It is certainly true that many whites benefited substantially from slavery while slavery existed. But the vast majority of whites did not benefit from slavery. The areas of the country that were most developed, were areas where there was no slavery.
Had there never been slavery, this country wouldn't have been any worse off than it is today. Just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and basically all of Europe. Those places did not have slavery. You can make a much stronger argument that had there never been slavery, that this country would be better off than it is today. Most of the advances this country made came long after slavery. Brazil imported more than twice as many slaves as America, is Brazil better off because of slavery?
In my view, white people as a whole have never benefited from slavery. Slavery always helps the rich, and hurts the poor. Thomas Jefferson even remarked on this when he discussed slavery.
Thomas Jefferson basically said, in a lot of ways slaves have it better than many white laborers. The black slave is always fed, always has a home, always had a job. The white laborer, if he can't find a job, then he starves on the streets.
If we go to the other side of this issue. Blacks have been far better off because of their contact with the west. And regardless of the appalling nature of slavery. Blacks were by and large much better off in America, even as slaves, than they were back in Africa. Once freed, most slaves could have gone back to Africa, for free. But very very very few went. Almost all blacks chose to stay here in America, even under Jim Crow laws, and while lynchings were common.
If you are black, I'm sure somewhere deep down you understand that you are the beneficiary of the sacrifice of your ancestors.
Even George Obama(Barack's brother), acknowledges that had whites stayed in Kenya, that Kenya would be better off than it is today.
Basically, had the continent of Africa fallen into the sea 1,000 years ago. The rest of the world would be no worse off than it is today. But had the rest of the world not existed, Africa would still be a craphole to this very day.
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Emmitt Till didn't act black back then and he died for whistling at a white women, there was no lil wayne, no n-i-g-g-a as a term of brotherhood, no tatoed up freak rappers and he got dealt with, they were hung from trees then just from the color of their skin so I don't see your point. The reality is black is different from white and that's all that's needed to drive the skinheads and the racist crazy, even if I spoke proper english would you really consider me your equal?
It is true that blacks have been killed for basically being black. But whites have been killed for being white. The question is, does "black brotherhood" or "ethnic solidarity" increase respect towards blacks from whites? I don't believe that it does.
The truth is, had Martin Luther King Jr not been a doctor and a reverend, whites never would have paid any attention to him. The reason blacks got their rights, was because they stood up and said "we are just like you". We are smart, we are people of faith and virtue. We deserve to be treated just like everyone else.
It wasn't by calling whites a bunch of racists. It wasn't by being aggressive towards whites. It wasn't by trying to argue that blacks and whites are different, can't get along, and should be separated(IE Malcolm X). Go look up the anti-slavery pamphlets from the 1800's. They say "Am I not a man and a brother?" It doesn't say, I'm African, respect me. It says, I'm a human being, respect me.
Whether or not some racist skinheads didn't like it is irrelevant. The truth is, the vast majority of whites did not agree with these kinds of laws in the 1960's. Many whites were married to blacks, many whites had black friends and neighbors.
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And I don't know what black culture is, I got to work and see tons of education black people acting properly... the problem is you don't see that and that's where you fail at.
Black culture is really ghetto black culture. It tends to be hostile towards white culture, education, and the government. It tends to promote irresponsibility, oversexualization of women, and substance abuse. A strong representation of black/ghetto culture is rap music.
This is in opposition of white culture, which tends to be more pro-education and pro-family. Though mainstream culture has become far more sexualized in recent years, and substance abuse has become an increasing problem. I consider white mainstream culture to be very passive overall. It tends to push for freedom of the individual, but also focuses a lot on social responsibility. I feel like it is really a culture of respect more than anything else.
Many Asian cultures focus a lot around respect as well. The Japanese are very big about respect for instance, and I think that is very important.
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As a single man, I hate what modern women have become, I believe it's harder to get women these days due to them having increased standards for men but to say they're less happy today is laughable.. women are free....totally free.. they're not tied down to a man, failed marriage, wife beater, they're free to leave and walk away, free to work, free to do what and whatever they please and denying that is laughable.
I didn't make it up, the statistics show that women are less happy.
The problem is that happiness is a strange thing. It is really difficult to quantify happiness. In my view, happiness is really about contentedness. Basically, if you are content, then you are happy. In my view, contentedness comes from two things. From feeling secure, and from meeting your expectations. Women are more likely to feel insecure than men. And marriages gave women a sense of security. They didn't have to juggle careers and raising kids. They could focus entirely on raising children.
I think women had simpler lives in the past. And so many of them were relatively content, because their expectations tended to be lower in the past. All they really had to do was find a man, take care of the house, and raise children. Once you found the man and had the children, life was pretty simple, as long as you found a decent man.
As feminism and consumerism raised expectations of women. The need for women to work outside of the home has grown. And so now women are more likely to have to juggle raising children while also working outside of the home. And on top of that, the rates of divorce have gone up sharply. And the percentage of children raised by both parents has dropped sharply. I think this necessarily has had a disproportionate effect on women.
If we look at the Soviet Union as a reference. Many people in Russia basically want the Soviet Union back. Under the Soviet system, they didn't have freedom, but they had security. They were guaranteed a job, and a home. They even had easy access to healthcare and other social benefits. They never had to make their own choices, they never had to do anything other than simply do as they were told.
I find it a little amusing, because I've known men who were married, who felt like their only job in life was to work. They would go to work, spend 50 hours at work a week. Bring their check home and give it to their wives, and just expect their wives to handle everything, while they just played video games and watched sports.
I used to live in an apartment with my sister, I only worked two days a week, made about $700 a month. All I wanted to do was play video games(world of warcraft), so I would just hand over my whole check to my sister to cover the bills(which my half of the bills were nowhere near $700 a month at the time). Because I was willing to pay money just for people to leave me alone.
I think a lot of people are that way, most people don't really care to work to get ahead. They simply work to have what they feel like they need, and thats all they want. They don't necessarily want freedom, they would be fine with someone telling them where to work, and working there forever. As long as they could do the work and they could afford to have the things they wanted.
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However, Siobhan Freegard, founder of the website Netmums, whose own survey found levels of 'baby blues' have risen sharply compared to 30 years ago, said: 'We pushed so hard for equal rights, for having the right to work, for having equal status, we pushed so hard to have choice.
'But what we hear from many mums is: I have no choice, I have to work, I don't love my career, my childminder is taking half my salary and I'd rather bring up my children myself but I can't afford to.
'If you enjoy your job and it's a fulfilling career, that is a positive choice.. but if it's not, it's almost in some ways that we got it all, then found that actually it wasn't quite what we wanted.'
Erin Pizzey, founder of the charity Refuge, added: 'The hard-won freedom of choice has imprisoned women. I just see an exhausted generation trying to do it all.'
Last edited by Redshadowz; 12-05-2012 at 10:29 PM..
Let me let you in on a little secret. People claim to be educated, yet they fail to realize that the "ghetto culture" you deride has more to do about social class than it does about the race itself. Blacks (or Hispanics, or any minority for that matter) aren't inherently ghetto. It's the environment that they are in. Blacks who are more well off don't behave stereotypically "ghetto" because they aren't in a ghetto. Duh. It has nothing to do with "acting white". IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CLASS. I'm sure Martha's Vineyard has drive bys every Saturday. And you'd better clutch your purse too when you're in Teaneck NJ, because even though the homes are $$$$, you WILL get robbed simply because the people are Black. If you're going to compare White culture and cherrypick the negative aspects of Black culture, compare apples to apples. I'm sure Honey Boo Boo's family is the "superior" White culture at its finest.
Look, I agree with you totally in the sense that people from lower classes act more ghetto. But I disagree that that is solely the case.
I do believe that culture plays a role. If we look at India for instance, India has some of the most striking income equality in the entire world. But India does not have the crime that we have in America. Hispanics are poorer than blacks in America, and Hispanics don't have nearly the crime rates and social dysfunction of black communities. Nor do Hispanic communities have nearly as much hostility towards whites and mainstream culture as blacks.
You can say it is a legacy of slavery, or racism. You can make this excuse or that excuse. But the reality is that, blacks, even some wealthier blacks, tend to believe in a black culture, and tend to vehemently opposed to anyone who are perceived as "acting white", while calling those individuals Uncle Toms or worse. Even Barack Obama touched on the subject in his 2004 Keynote address(which I've personally watched twice before). When he said... "Children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”
So lets be honest here, there is a black culture, there is black hostility towards white people. And none of that is doing blacks any good.
Pretending there isn't a problem, or blaming whites for everything, is helping anyone. The best thing blacks can do, is just embrace whites, be the Uncle Tom's that you hate. Who cares? What does it really hurt?
I'll tell you something. My mother was a very proud person, and she used to complain about "brown-nosers" and about how the "brown-nosers" would get promoted even if they weren't the best employee, just because the boss liked them the most. And I remember getting a job and I noticed the same pattern, and I thought it was incredibly unfair. But what do you do about it?
The truth is, I ended up becoming what I used to hate and complain about. But it really doesn't even bother me either. Being stubborn, proud, and hostile got me nowhere. Being friendly, agreeable, and engaging gets you everywhere.
I just believe blacks would attract more flies with honey than vinegar. And I think black leaders do blacks a disservice by being so hostile, angry, and uncompromising.
I haven't studied them and rarely even bother with them, but I'd be willing to bet most of the race threads are started by blacks. Playing the victim is a big deal to them and they wallow in it. They also tend to swing topics to racial issues when race isn't the subject at all. They see things that aren't there.
Oh, well.
you should be the first poster on "ask a black person." this post is all wrong. we don't enjoy "playing the victim." we just want to live our lives and have opportunities to prosper like everyone else.
Moreover, folks can say things on the net that they can't get away with saying in person. That's a big aspect of it. Stick around. You'll see a lot more of it.
Look, I agree with you totally in the sense that people from lower classes act more ghetto. But I disagree that that is solely the case.
I do believe that culture plays a role. If we look at India for instance, India has some of the most striking income equality in the entire world. But India does not have the crime that we have in America. Hispanics are poorer than blacks in America, and Hispanics don't have nearly the crime rates and social dysfunction of black communities. Nor do Hispanic communities have nearly as much hostility towards whites and mainstream culture as blacks.
You can say it is a legacy of slavery, or racism. You can make this excuse or that excuse. But the reality is that, blacks, even some wealthier blacks, tend to believe in a black culture, and tend to vehemently opposed to anyone who are perceived as "acting white", while calling those individuals Uncle Toms or worse. Even Barack Obama touched on the subject in his 2004 Keynote address(which I've personally watched twice before). When he said... "Children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”
So lets be honest here, there is a black culture, there is black hostility towards white people. And none of that is doing blacks any good.
Pretending there isn't a problem, or blaming whites for everything, is helping anyone. The best thing blacks can do, is just embrace whites, be the Uncle Tom's that you hate. Who cares? What does it really hurt?
I'll tell you something. My mother was a very proud person, and she used to complain about "brown-nosers" and about how the "brown-nosers" would get promoted even if they weren't the best employee, just because the boss liked them the most. And I remember getting a job and I noticed the same pattern, and I thought it was incredibly unfair. But what do you do about it?
The truth is, I ended up becoming what I used to hate and complain about. But it really doesn't even bother me either. Being stubborn, proud, and hostile got me nowhere. Being friendly, agreeable, and engaging gets you everywhere.
I just believe blacks would attract more flies with honey than vinegar. And I think black leaders do blacks a disservice by being so hostile, angry, and uncompromising.
Wow. Your posts are so incredibly long, and yet you manage to get it wrong every single time. Each additional post is more ridiculous than the last. I can't even give you an "E" for effort. It's just "F" for fail all day, every day.
Blacks see themselves as a separate group, and they want to promote their own groups by focusing around what they see as their own people. And many egalitarian types, who want blacks to seen more as equals, and who have good intentions, will also promote blacks in much of the same way.
Either by promoting black inventors, or by promoting Africans themselves, or African culture, and civilization.
And while I understand that their intentions are good, they are trying to say "see Africans are good to, Africans are smart to, etc etc". The problem I have is that the result of such a policy isn't what was intended.
The result of such a policy, is to reinforce the idea that blacks are a distinct group from everyone else. While also insinuating that whites don't treat blacks fairly, and that whites always skew history in their favor. While ignoring the fact that the history being produced to promote blacks, is also skewed in their favor.
And what about Jim Crow? Do you really think it was the blacks who were against a colorblind society? Black panther movement aside, i'm sure that 90% of the blacks of the 60s and 70s wanted nothing more than to be treated and respected as americans race be damned. Who put up all those nifty "colored" and "white only" signs all place? Blacks?
Wow. Your posts are so incredibly long, and yet you manage to get it wrong every single time. Each additional post is more ridiculous than the last. I can't even give you an "E" for effort. It's just "F" for fail all day, every day.
Yes RS thinks long = accurate.
Thread has gone off topic. The question is "why so many threads about black people." So far none of the guilty have been able to state why they spend so many of their waking hours posting threads and writing these long rants day in and day out.
I suspect thinking about black people 24/7 is like popping a Viagra for some of these folks.
Wow. Your posts are so incredibly long, and yet you manage to get it wrong every single time. Each additional post is more ridiculous than the last. I can't even give you an "E" for effort. It's just "F" for fail all day, every day.
Look, Obama himself said that it is common slander that a black person with a book is "Acting white". Are you telling me Obama is lying?
When Jesse Jackson says he is relieved to see a white person when he hears footsteps at night. Is he referring to socio-economic class? Or is he talking about race?
Look, Jesse Jackson says he is basically embarrassed to say it like that, and I don't like having to say it either. But it needs to be said. You refuse to acknowledge it, because you don't want to believe it. But its simply the truth.
We can solve the problem of race, simply by eliminating the culture gap that divides us. We can solve the problem of race, by destroying this whole notion that some black people have, that it is a bad thing to act white, that it is terrible to be seen as an uncle Tom. Black conservatives are constantly attacked as Uncle Toms, that they are just tools of racists.
The truth is, black people don't want to hear any criticism of themselves. When they hear criticism of the black community, they try to turn it around and blame other people(mostly whites), usually as a relic of slavery or racism. You can't fix the problem if you refuse to recognize that a problem exists.
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Originally Posted by emerald_octane
And what about Jim Crow? Do you really think it was the blacks who were against a colorblind society? Black panther movement aside, i'm sure that 90% of the blacks of the 60s and 70s wanted nothing more than to be treated and respected as americans race be damned. Who put up all those nifty "colored" and "white only" signs all place? Blacks?
Blacks wanted equal opportunities, they didn't necessarily want a complete integration of all schools and communities. As someone remarked before, the worst segregation in this entire country, is on Sunday morning, at church.
I'm not going to defend whites prior to the end of Jim Crow, because there is nothing to defend. Most whites have grown tired of racism, and would just like it all to end. But the reason racism cannot end, is because of high crime rates among blacks, and special treatment towards blacks. It is because anytime something happens to a black person by a white person, its because of racism. While ignoring what blacks do to whites.
I don't blame black individuals really, I blame many black leaders. The Al Sharptons, whose careers and prestige centers around turning blacks into perpetual victims. These black leaders want racism, they look for racism, and they'll pretend to find racism, even when there is no proof of it. They are the ones who produce the hostility that blacks have towards whites, by creating an environment where blacks believe beyond all evidence, that whites hate blacks, and that racism is what is holding back the black community.
It is all nonsense. And all people like Al Sharpton do, is make things worse for blacks, and make racism worse. But you can't say that as a white person, because then you are the racist. And if you say it as a black person, then you are an uncle Tom.
I believe that if blacks would stop saying that acting white was a bad thing. If blacks put a higher value on education. If blacks were to put more value on speaking well. If blacks put a higher value on marriage. If blacks for lack of a better word, acted white. I think racism would die.
And this is coming from someone who has seen racism a lot in my life. I've even seen blacks basically racist against themselves. My friend used to work in a furniture store, he mostly worked with black people, and he is pretty racist. But there was a black guy that worked there that he really liked, and my friend used to give him rides to work, and went over to his house after work and everything. But there were others he didn't like. The one he liked basically acted like a white guy, just like everyone else, what wasn't there to like? The others acted like ghetto black people. He would just say the black guy who acted white "acted normal". While the others basically acted like N-words. And I've seen blacks call each other the same. Blacks who act ghetto and uncivilized get called N-words, by other blacks.
I call whites that act ghetto wiggers, and most white people don't like them either. A bunch of meth using thieves abusing government assistance. I don't like them, and I don't want to be around them. I don't defend them either, what is there to defend?
I have a sister who is basically total white garbage. I love her, and I do wish she would turn her life around. But she is just a bad person, and I don't think it is possible for her to become a decent person. And I'm not going to defend people like her, I'm not going to blame it on the system or racism or anything else. She is just a bad person, who has chosen to live her life, and sees nothing wrong with it.
The difference between whites and blacks, is that whites tend to condemn each other for poor behavior. While blacks seem to encourage it, or justify it.
If a black person steals from a white person, blacks tend to think the white person deserved it. When whites steal from blacks, whites condemn it, and believe that the white person is making racism worse.
I'm just saying, there are ways to eliminate racism, but turning blacks into victims, and whites into abusers, doesn't help. Giving special privileges to certain groups doesn't help. And refusing to see problems where they exist, doesn't help either.
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