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Naturally the common people don't want war. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. All you have to do is to tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotismand exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
Hermann Goering
A fat, drug addicted, suicidal Nazi's ramblings have no bearing on what democracies or parliamentary republics actually do. That he had contempt for pacifists does not elevate the value of the latter, for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721
Terrorist not I but my government is.
I thought "we" stood for "you and I." Since you clearly do not speak for anyone else here, I assumed by "we" you meant "I."
You seem rather comfortable living under the dictatorship of the said terrorist. If I lived under a terrorist regime, I'd pick up a rifle and fight it, but that's just me I guess. I understand, you'd rather take some pictures and have some coffee afterwards while regaling us with your anti-terrorist heroics on the internet.
Have you considered living under a different regime? Or is this terrorist regime in Washington not issuing an exit visa to you?
Back when I worked in the counter-terrorism business, the definition of a terrorist was one who deliberately targeted non-combatants with violent means to effect political changes. Collateral damage and deliberate targeting are not the same. I don't know very many armed forces today or at any historical period that have a team of lawyers review targets and operations for legality like the U.S. military does.
A fat, drug addicted, suicidal Nazi's ramblings have no bearing on what democracies or parliamentary republics actually do. That he had contempt for pacifists does not elevate the value of the latter, for that matter.
I thought "we" stood for "you and I." Since you clearly do not speak for anyone else here, I assumed by "we" you meant "I."
You seem rather comfortable living under the dictatorship of the said terrorist. If I lived under a terrorist regime, I'd pick up a rifle and fight it, but that's just me I guess. I understand, you'd rather take some pictures and have some coffee afterwards while regaling us with your anti-terrorist heroics on the internet.
Have you considered living under a different regime? Or is this terrorist regime in Washington not issuing an exit visa to you?
Back when I worked in the counter-terrorism business, the definition of a terrorist was one who deliberately targeted non-combatants with violent means to effect political changes. Collateral damage and deliberate targeting are not the same. I don't know very many armed forces today or at any historical period that have a team of lawyers review targets and operations for legality like the U.S. military does.
No, you're wrong again. Most lefties are against both methods and are very unhappy with the Obama administration's current policies regarding drones. I'm an agnostic on the issue. Most liberals voted for Obama because the alternative was much worse. Obama outlawed torture on his first day in office, bringing America back into the civilized world's good graces.
From what I've read, much of the argument by the moderate left has to do with the CIA's increasing militarization (use of drones) by the current administration, and the perception that we are flouting international law by using drone attacks.
Sure they are against it....
That must be why I see the big anti-war and anti-guantanamo rallies all the time like in 2008.
I'm laughing at how you think Obama outlawed torture.....oh yeah....we let our proxies and CIA perform the torture "off the books" now. If you think otherwise, you are naive.
Most libs voted for a guy that has not changed course one little bit from Bush\Cheney. What that tells me is that they really don't care about the war issue as there is no real difference between Romney and Obama on that topic.
Why don't you just be honest and say the following.....my liberal and conservative friends would never vote for the other party and will rationalize anything. The moderates just found Obama to be a little better choice overall and so he was re-elected. Ta da! Let's not pretend the far left and far right really think that hard before they vote.
You know, my four year old gets unhappy whenever a friend of his says that. He usually retorts "that's not logical!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Why don't you just be honest and say the following.....my liberal and conservative friends would never vote for the other party and will rationalize anything. The moderates just found Obama to be a little better choice overall and so he was re-elected. Ta da! Let's not pretend the far left and far right really think that hard before they vote.
Actually, the Obama campaign was able to turn out, via micro margeting, many hietherto ignored leftish voters in the battleground states. The Romney campaign failed to turn out many white conservatives in these battleground states and that demographic stayed home. From 2008, there was a dramatic shift among independents toward R from D.
But you are right that, despite Obama's previous anti-war rhetoric, the substance of his foreign policy has not been drastically different from the Bush years. It certainly differs little, if at all, from a hypothetical Hillary Clinton administration.
You know, my four year old gets unhappy whenever a friend of his says that. He usually retorts "that's not logical!"
Actually, the Obama campaign was able to turn out, via micro margeting, many hietherto ignored leftish voters in the battleground states. The Romney campaign failed to turn out many white conservatives in these battleground states and that demographic stayed home. From 2008, there was a dramatic shift among independents toward R from D.
But you are right that, despite Obama's previous anti-war rhetoric, the substance of his foreign policy has not been drastically different from the Bush years. It certainly differs little, if at all, from a hypothetical Hillary Clinton administration.
That must be why I see the big anti-war and anti-guantanamo rallies all the time like in 2008.
I'm laughing at how you think Obama outlawed torture.....oh yeah....we let our proxies and CIA perform the torture "off the books" now. If you think otherwise, you are naive.
Most libs voted for a guy that has not changed course one little bit from Bush\Cheney. What that tells me is that they really don't care about the war issue as there is no real difference between Romney and Obama on that topic.
Why don't you just be honest and say the following.....my liberal and conservative friends would never vote for the other party and will rationalize anything. The moderates just found Obama to be a little better choice overall and so he was re-elected. Ta da! Let's not pretend the far left and far right really think that hard before they vote.
There were 2 close Guantanamo and end torture rallies this year one back in January and the other one in June.
STOP CIA KILLER DRONES & TORTURE!
Date:
Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 10:00am
Location :
Virginia
Location: CIA Headquarters, 900 Block of Dolly Madison Blvd, Langley, Virginia
Event Details: The CIA has been found guilty by the European Court of torture, abuse, & secretly imprisoning. US Military & CIA drones have maimed & killed thousands of people in Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Iraq, Libya, & Afghanistan. This year alone there have been over 333 + strikes in Afghanistan. Almost 60 Guantanamo prisoners have been cleared for release but still remain captives of the US indefinitely. Stand with us opposing CIA & US Military drones used in extrajudicial killings and US/CIA secret rendition, indefinite detention, all torture, to oppose & close the Guantanamo prison camp.
Torture & US killer drone strikes are illegal, immoral, and must stop now!
JOINING US JANUARY 12: WITNESS AGAINST TORTURE
Supported by Pax Christi Metro DC, Northern Virginians for Peace & Justice, Episcopal Peace Fellowship, Dorothy Day Catholic Worker of DC, Code Pink, Nova Catholic Community, Peace & International Outreach Committee of Langley Hill Friends, Washington Peace Center, & Peace Action Montgomery County, MD
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Let's not pretend the far left and far right really think that hard before they vote.
