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Yes yes... another post claiming I'm lying about Republicans, but nothing about what the actual lie is.
Well, for starters, in the thread title you used the word "conservatives," but in the actual post, you referred to "republicans."
The two terms are not interchangeable, so either you lied, or you don't know the difference. Either way, you're going against the very rules that you set for the thread. End of story.
As for the rest, if you don't or can't see how you're just spewing talking points based on bias, then there's no point in explaining anything to you - you're done. You don't want the kind of discussion you requested, and I think that's pretty obvious to anyone reading through the thread.
Not sure why I returned to this thread. It's really quite pointless. You're just another rabid lefty that doesn't know the difference between a conservative and a republican, and the LAST thing you actually want is an honest discussion.
Conservatives "complain" about the economy under Obama -- the stagnating wages, the lack of jobs, etc -- but in reality, they are perfectly okay w/ the way things things are. They have to be since this is the outcome that is supposed to happen w/ the policies Republicans support. How is this economy NOT the scenario we end up w/ when businesses have the support of Republicans to outsource jobs, import cheaper employees, strip collective bargaining power from workers, and give the rich every incentive to keep as much money as they can?
Take any problem that's wrong w/ the economy and ask yourself: what's the Republican solution to fix it?
Barely livable wages for the working poor? Cut taxes for the rich, cut welfare, repeal min wage.
Stagnating wages for the middle class? Cut taxes for the rich, cut benefits that help their kids go to college
Dwindling job openings? Cut taxes for the rich, cut gov't spending on public jobs so that there's not competition w/ private wages.
Overworked employees earning less of a share of profits? Cut taxes on the rich, push for "right to work" status.
Unqualified applicants for technical jobs? Cut taxes for the rich, bring in cheaper applicants from overseas.
I would be interested to know of any positions on the Right that put UPWARD pressure on wages... We already know what the current trend of downward pressure leads to: more people fighting for fewer jobs at lower wages creating less demand in the economy. So what do the Republicans have in their wheel house that puts the upward pressure on wages?
If Republicans think I'm full of bs, fine. But I'd like to hear which problem w/ the economy that you think the Republican solution fixes, and how it will end w/ upward pressure on wages.
"If Republicans think I'm full of bs,". Very true. maybe because you think ONLY repubs are guilty of "to outsource jobs, import cheaper employee", etc.
So you spend an entire post going on about the lies and propaganda from Fox and Rush Limbaugh, and then end your post by saying you really wish we'd watch these videos with no evidence that they aren't simply propaganda from the left wing instead of the right wing.
I appreciate the fact that you consider conservatives misled and misguided. I mean that sincerely. I'd rather someone consider me brainwashed than just evil. But where do you get your news and ideas? Why should I believe what you say? I mean that seriously, not as an insult. If you want me to believe that everything I believe is a lie, then how do I know that everything you believe isn't a lie? So your sources are telling you different things than what Fox News says, but what makes them any more accurate? What if they're just a different set of lies?
You said that there is left wing propaganda, can you provide an explanation or source explaining this propaganda?
Answer: No you can not.
How can you make statements that you can't explain or provide sources for?
And how can you judge my source without even watching it?
My posted source (the Australian documentary) has scientists calling the US republicans a corporate propaganda group.
And you are (not) evil in your personal life, but you are brainwashed, and your political philosophies are evil.
And unlike you I can explain and give sources for my above statement.
Take two well understood metrics like buying power and propensity to consume. If demand falls, one cause would be a buying power shift from a demographic that consumers to one that does not. It is again the failure to define demand. Effective demand , unlike a galley slave that has a demand to dance in a field of daisies, must be attainable. First comes want, then comes buying power.
Since all the other data clearly show this to be the case what wasn't complicated to suspect is a now a verifiable fact.
Aluminum has proven to be a classic Austrian-Keynesian finacialized model which debunks basic supply and demand barter models of the neo classical school. Is finance and money manipulation not a factor?
The question is whether expanded financial interest in aluminum has driven up the level and volatility of prices. The dominant academic perspective suggests that market prices will be determined by physical supply and demand, and that financial trading can, if anything, only drive them more rapidly toward balance.
The title is because Friedman was a leading exponent of the classical supply and demand model. Not sure why the most popular aspect of the classical school happens to be the one I disagree with, but no luck .
In the case of aluminum, though, things may not work so smoothly -- which is why financial flows can raise prices and volatility for a period of time. For one reason, within certain price ranges, supply and demand are relatively inelastic. On the supply side, that’s because existing smelters are limited in how much additional production they can handle -- and opening new smelters is expensive and takes time. On the demand side, many end users, such as auto manufacturers, are reluctant to switch from aluminum to other materials unless the price increase is extreme. So prices can move a lot without much change in supply or demand.
So I have watched with some fascination of what happens with a commodity that is inelastic on both ends which has been a fantastic real world case of isolating finance. If supply and demand is the same, why the wild price swings? Why isn't supply and demand setting the price?
Surely no such thing would happen in the labor markets, right?
So does tax increases on the rich create "demand" for private sector jobs?
All of America has been hit by the scam of trickle down economics, it even effects the stability of the wealth of Americas rich.
Billionaires put their tax cuts in the bank.
Millionaires us tax cuts to build US factories in China.
The best way to stimulate "today's" economy is to give tax cuts to the poor. The poor spend their tax cuts in the businesses that surround them. And this increased business helps everyone in the economy.
But the things that effect an economy are complex. The only 100% sure thing is that big tax cuts create big deficits (and America needs to get rid of its deficits.)
Conservatives "complain" about the economy under Obama -- the stagnating wages, the lack of jobs, etc -- but in reality, they are perfectly okay w/ the way things things are. They have to be since this is the outcome that is supposed to happen w/ the policies Republicans support. How is this economy NOT the scenario we end up w/ when businesses have the support of Republicans to outsource jobs, import cheaper employees, strip collective bargaining power from workers, and give the rich every incentive to keep as much money as they can?
Take any problem that's wrong w/ the economy and ask yourself: what's the Republican solution to fix it?
Barely livable wages for the working poor? Cut taxes for the rich, cut welfare, repeal min wage.
Stagnating wages for the middle class? Cut taxes for the rich, cut benefits that help their kids go to college
Dwindling job openings? Cut taxes for the rich, cut gov't spending on public jobs so that there's not competition w/ private wages.
Overworked employees earning less of a share of profits? Cut taxes on the rich, push for "right to work" status.
Unqualified applicants for technical jobs? Cut taxes for the rich, bring in cheaper applicants from overseas.
I would be interested to know of any positions on the Right that put UPWARD pressure on wages... We already know what the current trend of downward pressure leads to: more people fighting for fewer jobs at lower wages creating less demand in the economy. So what do the Republicans have in their wheel house that puts the upward pressure on wages?
If Republicans think I'm full of bs, fine. But I'd like to hear which problem w/ the economy that you think the Republican solution fixes, and how it will end w/ upward pressure on wages.
Wow- Another thread assigning false presumptions to conservative political views. He might as well have said republicans support cannibalism and devil worship.
Conservative answers-
1. flat tax for everyone
2. eliminate all deductions
3. cut corporate taxes to 5%
4. 15% national VAT tax
5. Constitutional balanced budget amendment
6. one limit term limits (for supreme court also)
7. corporate lobbying illegal
8. renegotiate NAFTA and China most favored nation trade status
9. national right to work law
10. open federal lands to domestic energy exploration
11. tax 5% of #10 revenues and earmark for mandated non-fossil fuel infrastructure
12. work program in exchange for welfare support
13. limit federal support to families with two children or less
14. 5% of annual federal revenues earmarked for debt reduction
15. Privatize the public education system
a. with savings from current expenditures, create "free" college tuition program to subsidize and encourage college/trade school
b. adopt "tenure" system for teachers
c. expel those not achieving passing grades for two consecutive years and enroll in trade school courses or military pathway
16. eliminate the federal reserve system
17. Medicare-
a. only generic drugs
b. no interventions when predicted life expectancy is less than 5%
c. no elective surgery over age 85
18. Medicaid
a. mandatory urine drug screen for maintenance of benefits
b. only generic drugs
c. limit ER visits to two per year, unless identified as chronic "life threatening" condition
d. increase co-pays
e. increase co-pays for ER visits 5X
f. No MRI imaging unless MEDICALLY DEMONSTRATED that cannot use CT/plain films for same condition
There you go- a strong middle class and the ability of "the poor" to ascend. Keep in mind that we pay the most in the world for education and healthcare. We do not need to throw any additional money at these problems.
It all fits in with the economic agenda the GOP seems to have adopted:
Millionaires don't have enough money and working folks have too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
You need to take a step back.
Before you ask what their solution is, you first have to convince them that flat (or declining) wages, lack of jobs, rising income inequality, and lack of economic mobility are bad things. Those are not things that are widely accepted. Lack of economic mobility and concentration of wealth at the top are seen as good. Flat wages and an inability to make ends meet just means workers are lazy (despite rising productivity and the fact that minimum wage, in constant dollars, has declined significantly over the last several decades).
It's like they're suffering from some weird Stockholm syndrome, combined with pie in the sky fantasies that someday they'll be the ones at top who aren't getting screwed.
Ha... They care about stopping those things about as much as the undertaker cares about saving lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
Well, for starters, in the thread title you used the word "conservatives," but in the actual post, you referred to "republicans."
The two terms are not interchangeable, so either you lied, or you don't know the difference. Either way, you're going against the very rules that you set for the thread. End of story.
As for the rest, if you don't or can't see how you're just spewing talking points based on bias, then there's no point in explaining anything to you - you're done. You don't want the kind of discussion you requested, and I think that's pretty obvious to anyone reading through the thread.
Not sure why I returned to this thread. It's really quite pointless. You're just another rabid lefty that doesn't know the difference between a conservative and a republican, and the LAST thing you actually want is an honest discussion.
Have a nice day.
To snip that last line you're clinging to... is there a Conservative party or a Republican party? If there's no Conservative party, and you vote for Republican candidates and support the Republican agenda, then that means that yes, you are a Republican. If you didn't vote Republican, then this post doesn't apply to you. And if you read back to my post, you'll see I use Republican when referencing policy, and Right/Conservative when talking about ideology. This weak attempt at semantics only shows how little you have to defend yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It really depends on context. For instance, in the 1950's and 1960's high personal income tax rates meant business owners didn't take much money out of businesses as personal income and instead ended up reinvesting most of it into the business. If they took it out of the business then they'd get hit with a big tax bill but if they reinvested it then they didn't have to pay any taxes on it so, yes, it resulted in businesses all across the country constantly expanding their current product lines, creating new product lines, and expanding into more cities all across the country. This increased total employment, increased demand, and even lead to higher wages because it was better to give the workers a raise then to just see the government take the money.
In short, yes, taxes (along with tax deductions to encourage companies to take a certain course of action) can indeed increase demand; you need both a carrot and a stick and taxes are the stick.
I wish that would happen again today. Until some (dis)incentive is introduced to convince executives to invest their record profits into their workers, they will keep hoarding it until they can somehow spend it on themselves or their shareholders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Wow- Another thread assigning false presumptions to conservative political views. He might as well have said republicans support cannibalism and devil worship.
Conservative answers-
1. flat tax for everyone 2. eliminate all deductions
3. cut corporate taxes to 5% 4. 15% national VAT tax
5. Constitutional balanced budget amendment
6. one limit term limits (for supreme court also)
7. corporate lobbying illegal
8. renegotiate NAFTA and China most favored nation trade status 9. national right to work law
10. open federal lands to domestic energy exploration
11. tax 5% of #10 revenues and earmark for mandated non-fossil fuel infrastructure 12. work program in exchange for welfare support
13. limit federal support to families with two children or less
14. 5% of annual federal revenues earmarked for debt reduction 15. Privatize the public education system
a. with savings from current expenditures, create "free" college tuition program to subsidize and encourage college/trade school
b. adopt "tenure" system for teachers
c. expel those not achieving passing grades for two consecutive years and enroll in trade school courses or military pathway
16. eliminate the federal reserve system
17. Medicare-
a. only generic drugs
b. no interventions when predicted life expectancy is less than 5%
c. no elective surgery over age 85
18. Medicaid
a. mandatory urine drug screen for maintenance of benefits
b. only generic drugs
c. limit ER visits to two per year, unless identified as chronic "life threatening" condition
d. increase co-pays
e. increase co-pays for ER visits 5X
f. No MRI imaging unless MEDICALLY DEMONSTRATED that cannot use CT/plain films for same condition
There you go- a strong middle class and the ability of "the poor" to ascend. Keep in mind that we pay the most in the world for education and healthcare. We do not need to throw any additional money at these problems.
Outside of the fact that nothing you wrote is the position of any major Conservative bloc, all the bolded items do exactly what I said Republican policy does.
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We already know what the current trend of downward pressure leads to: more people fighting for fewer jobs at lower wages creating less demand in the economy. So what do the Republicans have in their wheel house that puts the upward pressure on wages?
