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Actually, the U.S. is pretty exceptional in the sense that it continuously managed to maintain some kind of a real democratic framework while simultaneously supporting frequently violating individual rights, launching unnecessary military actions, and even sometimes pursuing things such as ethnic cleansing.
Also, as a side note, it is pretty interesting and exceptional that a country which was claimed to have been founded on extremely noble ideas gradually managed to arguably becomes the most powerful, most influential, and the wealthiest country in the world.
Imagine telling your kid he is exceptional and it does not matter if he studies or not, works out or not, goes to church/synagogue or not, shows respect for others or not, or generally learns to appreciate others. He is right (and best),just because. The kid will most likely grow into a selfish turd, and a country that feeds on hubris turns itself into an obese warthog of self indulgence. This is precisely the opposite of Jesus' lesson (and the lesson of heroes throughout history) of putting others before yourself. Besides, greatness comes through achievement and sacrifice, nothing else.
I am sure Assad, Hussein, Bin Laden, Hitler, Bismark, Mao, Pol Pot, and many others are/were certain they were special and better than others.
I think America is special, but so are many other countries and peoples, and when we tell ourselves this as a self-mythology, it is meaningless, destructive, and in my opinion, just plain stupid.
If the names "Little Boy" "Fat Man" don't ring the bell you probably want to hit some history books.
I believe I was very clear in making my point about you not fighting or winning WWII by yourselves. Hit the history books yourself since it's you that are obvious in your lack of knowledge.
Read some history about RAF squadrons operating in the far east and solitary Australians performing coast watch duties behind enemy lines before you'd even set foot on those beaches.
My own FIL, just for one, flew 67 missions (no 25 and home for other commonwealth allies, they commonly flew till they dropped) into enemy territory with 355, 356, and 357 squadrons bombing strafing and flying Sikhs and other agents well behind enemy lines in lone, un-escorted Liberators.
Have a care before you dismiss the contributions of others with your "we won the war" nonsense.
Imagine telling your kid he is exceptional and it does not matter if he studies or not, works out or not, goes to church/synagogue or not, shows respect for others or not, or generally learns to appreciate others. He is right (and best),just because. The kid will most likely grow into a selfish turd, and a country that feeds on hubris turns itself into an obese warthog of self indulgence. This is precisely the opposite of Jesus' lesson (and the lesson of heroes throughout history) of putting others before yourself. Besides, greatness comes through achievement and sacrifice, nothing else.
I am sure Assad, Hussein, Bin Laden, Hitler, Bismark, Mao, Pol Pot, and many others are/were certain they were special and better than others.
I think America is special, but so are many other countries and peoples, and when we tell ourselves this as a self-mythology, it is meaningless, destructive, and in my opinion, just plain stupid.
You have the right idea.
Shouting we are the greatest for no other reason other than to convince others is the stuff precluding the downfall of Rome.
First you agree with me; you did in fact not win the war by yourselves then you go on to describe how you actually did while accusing me of using "hatred" rather than fact when I simply stated you did not win the war by yourselves.
Where did anyone state your forces were not the most potent at the end of WWII? Quote please.
Was it "hatred" you showed when referring to "smartassism" or just some of that highschool debate skill you amassed yesterday?
Which the hell is it?
Now more about the highschool debate basics you mentioned.....and their use thereof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan
I believe I was very clear in making my point about you not fighting or winning WWII by yourselves. Hit the history books yourself since it's you that are obvious in your lack of knowledge.
Read some history about RAF squadrons operating in the far east and solitary Australians performing coast watch duties behind enemy lines before you'd even set foot on those beaches.
My own FIL, just for one, flew 67 missions (no 25 and home for other commonwealth allies, they commonly flew till they dropped) into enemy territory with 355, 356, and 357 squadrons bombing strafing and flying Sikhs and other agents well behind enemy lines in lone, un-escorted Liberators.
Have a care before you dismiss the contributions of others with your "we won the war" nonsense.
But who said "we won the war singlehandedly without any help from anyone else"? (this is the sense in which you are using the phrase) As you say, quote please?
I didn't say it. I said "in the end" or "by the end," something like that, and used the word "essentially" (or equivalent). And I'll stand by that much. The bomb finished it off. Can you dispute that when the Japanese imperial government practically gave that as the final reasoning for the surrender? It wasn't meant to imply that nobody else did anything--simply that in the end, that's what prompted the final straw that broke the Japanese will to continue. Would you want a bunch of nuclear warheads raining down on you? There's no way they could have countered that. It was the only reasonable choice unless they wanted to become a nuclear waste site.
Besides, just saying "we won the war" is not the same as saying "we won the war singlehandedly without any help from anyone else all by ourselves." I can say that "I went to the store yesterday," and that doesn't mean I did it completely alone. I could have gone with a relative, the neighbor, or a supermodel. It's not the same as saying that I went with nobody else or that I went with somebody else. Without that added qualifier implying "alone" or "with someone" else, we can't make inference one way or the other.
Oh, sorry, I'd better change that last sentence so I sound as cool as you do: Without that added qualifier implying "alone" or "with someone" else, we can't make inference one the hell way or the other the hell way.... sunshine. Their, now I'm as badass as you.
Oh, by the way... where were those B-24 Liberators built and imported from?
----------------
And further by the way, I don't think the US is special at all. Now. I gave you my take on the term "exceptionalism" in a couple previous posts. Our government was established in the beginning as something damn sure different from (and special compared to) nearly any prior form of government (i.e. monarchy, despotism, theocracy, oligarchy, etc). But it didn't last long and really began going downhill around 100 years ago.
There's not much that is exceptional these days besides the exceptional stupidity of our yanky-doodle populace for ****canning that "exceptional" experiment in commoner individual liberty. That was back before all the big corporations and big government that the two sides now squabble about ad nauseam took over the dog-and-pony show. We had the power to prevent that kind of thing from happening in the first place. That power was given to us. But we elected more snakes than we did servants nearly from the beginning. We simply threw our power as commoners with a voice away long before you or I or any of us mighty 'mericans living today were born. Oh sure, we still probably do have the power to clean house if we really gave a damn and could unbury our faces from our smartphones for long enough to give it a second thought (by the way, aren't those smartphones built by a big corporation?). But we really don't have the balls to do anything about that "runaway government" or "big, evil corporation" other than complain. In fact, we've singlehandedly assured that we are dependent on both of them by becoming a population that is essentially a two-headed snake. With each head fighting the other and both heads fundamentally flawed in ideology, politics, and philosophy. Why... it's enough to cause the casual observer to become a misanthrope.
But who said "we won the war singlehandedly without any help from anyone else"? (this is the sense in which you are using the phrase) As you say, quote please?
I didn't say it. I said "in the end" or "by the end," something like that, and used the word "essentially" (or equivalent). And I'll stand by that much. The bomb finished it off. Can you dispute that when the Japanese imperial government practically gave that as the final reasoning for the surrender? It wasn't meant to imply that nobody else did anything--simply that in the end, that's what prompted the final straw that broke the Japanese will to continue. Would you want a bunch of nuclear warheads raining down on you? There's no way they could have countered that. It was the only reasonable choice unless they wanted to become a nuclear waste site.
Besides, just saying "we won the war" is not the same as saying "we won the war singlehandedly without any help from anyone else all by ourselves." I can say that "I went to the store yesterday," and that doesn't mean I did it completely alone. I could have gone with a relative, the neighbor, or a supermodel. It's not the same as saying that I went with nobody else or that I went with somebody else. Without that added qualifier implying "alone" or "with someone" else, we can't make inference one way or the other.
Oh, sorry, I'd better change that last sentence so I sound as cool as you do: Without that added qualifier implying "alone" or "with someone" else, we can't make inference one the hell way or the other the hell way.... sunshine. Their, now I'm as badass as you.
Oh, by the way... where were those B-24 Liberators built and imported from?
----------------
And further by the way, I don't think the US is special at all. Now. I gave you my take on the term "exceptionalism" in a couple previous posts. Our government was established in the beginning as something damn sure different from (and special compared to) nearly any prior form of government (i.e. monarchy, despotism, theocracy, oligarchy, etc). But it didn't last long and really began going downhill around 100 years ago.
There's not much that is exceptional these days besides the exceptional stupidity of our yanky-doodle populace for ****canning that "exceptional" experiment in commoner individual liberty. That was back before all the big corporations and big government that the two sides now squabble about ad nauseam took over the dog-and-pony show. We had the power to prevent that kind of thing from happening in the first place. That power was given to us. But we elected more snakes than we did servants nearly from the beginning. We simply threw our power as commoners with a voice away long before you or I or any of us mighty 'mericans living today were born. Oh sure, we still probably do have the power to clean house if we really gave a damn and could unbury our faces from our smartphones for long enough to give it a second thought (by the way, aren't those smartphones built by a big corporation?). But we really don't have the balls to do anything about that "runaway government" or "big, evil corporation" other than complain. In fact, we've singlehandedly assured that we are dependent on both of them by becoming a population that is essentially a two-headed snake. With each head fighting the other and both heads fundamentally flawed in ideology, politics, and philosophy. Why... it's enough to cause the casual observer to become a misanthrope.
Your first paras explained your intent very plainly without the use of words like "hatred" or "smartassism" so I'll pass on responding to the "badass" comment that followed, along with your reference to the B-24 you just couldn't help throwing in.
You've clarified for me the position regarding "ending" versus "alone" and while I might still disagree with you that the end of the war was contributed to by all those forces keeping Japan very busy; I certainly cannot deny those two bombs were the decisive items for Japan.
Now, as to your last paras; you're way more judgmental on your country than I could ever be. That signifies all hope is not lost.
The most exceptional thing about us is that we change political leaders without killing anybody--or hopefully we do.
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