Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm inclined to think sex/gender roles have been culturally imposed, for the most part, and that both men and women naturally posses most of the same attributes. All natural human behaviors, gender notwithstanding, occur along the same broad spectrum. Erosion of traditional norms have simply allowed men and women more freedom to be themselves.
Having said that, our culture is certainly built on a sex/gender hierarchy in which men have been utterly dominant until recently. When a subordinate group seeks social equality, they often mimic the behavior of the dominant group to some extent, as a first step. As time goes on and things really do level out, my guess is that women's behavior won't resemble men's any more than comes naturally. We'll just have to wait to see what that looks like.
but even from a purely platonic perspective; women are just behaving more
'badly' than they used to! many are sexually liberated to the point that they
have many partners and freely admit to it! a woman will cheat now, with
seemingly no shame! and yes many are just butch and aggressive!
Oh my.
Quote:
Does women’s lib ultimately mean that women are meant to imitate men (including
some of the worst stereotypical characteristics)?
Perhaps "women's lib" means that women are free to embrace and exhibit their human traits now instead of suppressing them and being shamed for them.
Its telling that you highlight negative human traits like selfishness, promiscuity, indifference, and objectification but don't mention historical male positive traits that women are increasingly expressing like intellect, leadership, ambition, adventuress, competitiveness, physical strength, and provider.
Perhaps "women's lib" means that women are free to embrace and exhibit their human traits now instead of suppressing them and being shamed for them.
Its telling that you highlight negative human traits like selfishness, promiscuity, indifference, and objectification but don't mention historical male positive traits that women are increasingly expressing like intellect, leadership, ambition, adventuress, competitiveness, physical strength, and provider.
this thread is not about the postive traits, its about the negative ones.
a just and stable society needs women, women that are different from men! women, the fairer sex, needs to act as a buffer to the often problematic instincts of men. if women are just turning into men, then theres little hope for us!
this thread is not about the postive traits, its about the negative ones.
a just and stable society needs women, women that are different from men! women, the fairer sex, needs to act as a buffer to the often problematic instincts of men. if women are just turning into men, then theres little hope for us!
I agree with Slithyoves that both genders posses most of the same attributes. These negative traits are merely human behaviors. Suppression of these traits has been more of a societal constraint imposed on women. Women have been taught from an early age that we should be altruistic, faithful, demure, supportive and maternal.
Modern society no longer holds women to these different standards nor does it shame men for displaying positive attributes. It is no longer a woman's job to be responsible for men's negative behaviors. Women are not just turning into men, we are just being human.
I'm stating that men have always been/behaved like this (aggressive and self referenced), but women are very quickly catching up (from a behavioral perspective).
Frankly speaking, this is a rather ridiculous statement. Firstly, define "agressive" behavior. Do you mean: aggression in the work place? Aggression at home? Or Aggression in general?
There is clearly no data or study anywhere to suggest that women are becoming more aggressive. In fact, year after year data suggests that:
- women commit fewer crimes (e.g. homicides) than men
- women commit fewer workplace frauds (e.g. financial) than men
Are any of these trends reversing? Can you provide me any evidence to support any of the statements you are making?
Quote:
I have no problem with women catching up when it comes to power, as an aside I was a huge Hillary supporter. However, must this surge in power be accompanied by the same coarse behavior?
Your being a Hillary supporter has nothing to do with the statements you have made. How is that a defence for your position?
I STILL fail to understand how you can make a blanket statement like - women are becoming "coarse"?
I've wondered about this as well. The best explanation I've found was from a woman doctor who said it was due to the effects of birth control pills. I've also heard that the chemicals from these pills get into the water supply and affect even those who do not take them.
I haven't researched this extensively, but there is a lot of seemingly credible information on this on the internet.
Women are becoming more aggressive, assertive, and self referenced.
Men are more passive on average.
agree or disagree?
Personally I find it alarming how women are assuming, the more negative, attributes of men! Selfishness, no shame or less in cheating or playing the field and sexually objectifying the opposite sex, decreasing empathy and/or maternal instinct, etc. its just so sad and may have something to do our cultural decline (if you agree that there is any)...
Obviously with women's liberation in this country, women have amassed more power and opportunity, which is great. However, it seems that with the breaking of the shackles and cracking of the glass ceilings; women are starting to perpetrate the very same attributes that they rallied against for so many years.
and please be aware: I'm speaking in macro generalities here regarding women's behavior not their rights in society or social justice...
no, i don't think that gender roles are reversing. I think generally speaking we're realizing that those gender scripts are pretty limiting for a lot of people and there is more acceptance for more fluid expressions of gender. Also I see nothing wrong with women asserting themselves in their careers and in their personal lives.
That doesn't mean that men overall aren't still more "quote-unquote manly" than women are and vice versa--just a regression towards the mean.
I don't know about that. Watch an NFL game now and the quarterbacks are crying like schoolgirls if they get pushed a little harder than they would like. Those guys used to be pile-driving each other onto concrete covered by a thin layer of astroturf in the 1970s and 1980s.
Personally I find it alarming how women are assuming, the more negative, attributes of men!
I think there's a lot of truth to this, and it's unfortunate. I wish people would endeavor instead to take the positive attributes and combine them....
Many members of 'oppressed' groups seem to deliberately adopt the most negative characteristics they have attributed to their oppressors. They figure they're entitled.
None of this addresses just how inaccurate perception can be, particularly when there's power in play. And there usually is...
obviously my personal experiences inform my opinion. dating women, i have found these 'negative' traits to be more and more apparent, particularly with Black women. I deal with the conundrum that I'm a progressive man politically but often look for/ attracted to more traditional women (maternal instinct, not so self referenced, strong sense of personal morality) as far as behavior goes.
you will find women who are submissive in all walks of life. many women who are strong in public acting as you describe are not so in their personal lives.
but even from a purely platonic perspective; women are just behaving more 'badly' than they used to! many are sexually liberated to the point that they have many partners and freely admit to it! a woman will cheat now, with seemingly no shame! and yes many are just butch and aggressive!
women for the last 40 years have been able to act anyway we want. we earn our own way in the world. "no shame"? is a subjective judgment call. you obviously don't like women who sleep around even as just a friend. I hope you hold that standard to your men friends as well.
i have no problem being with a 'strong' woman, I want my woman to be strong. but, strong does not mean inherently self referenced and selfish; opportunistic and manipulative!
Does women’s lib ultimately mean that women are meant to imitate men (including some of the worst stereotypical characteristics)?
you don't like women who "you deem" come on too strong and are open about their sexuality. women don't intimidate men "on purpose"
Quote:
Originally Posted by niedo
this thread is not about the postive traits, its about the negative ones.
a just and stable society needs women, women that are different from men! women, the fairer sex, needs to act as a buffer to the often problematic instincts of men. if women are just turning into men, then theres little hope for us!
seriously women do not need to "buffer" anything for man. the fairer sex? we are far more complicated than that.
when people make their own way in the world they live their lives according to their own morals and personality. you don't have to like every body you meet.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you obviously don't like women who sleep around even as just a friend. I hope you hold that standard to your men friends as well. 
