Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree and never said they were. HOWEVER we both know communists have a place under the liberal wing of the (D's), not the (R's).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
McCarthy deserved to be vilified.
Maybe, maybe not. He certainly was a flawed man, but remember it is not so much the messenger, but the message that is important. The "Red Menace" was in fact out there much more so than the "black listed" people comprised. Granted there can be a philosophical/reasoned debate as to whether people should be persecuted for their political beliefs, even if those beliefs might lead to the overthrow of our society. Yet within the lens of that period of our history, being a communist was worthy of condemnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
The Founding Fathers were the leftists of their times.
I know what you mean, but I am not sure that is an accurate statement. Many times it is perceived that rebellion from authority is a liberal mentality. However that is applying our modern American view to our own time. The Founding Fathers were considered treasonous, terrorists, etc., yet they were primarily against taxation without representation. I'd say that is fairly close to the way the members of the Tea Party portray themselves. Also rebellion from an Monarchy is hardly a liberal or conservative notion. So to say the FF's were leftist is to apply a certain lens to history which is not entirely accurate.
The better question I think is what would the right like to see because they are a little hypocritical with all their complaining about socialism. Many collect more than one entitlement from the Federal government. Beyond the entitlements we see red state like Idaho as very dependent on programs like EIC, Food Stamps, and school lunches. Eight of the ten highest non-paying income tax states voted for Romney. So how would Republicans wean their dependency on the government?
Entitlements are things that all Americans pay into all their lives and collect on when they reach a certain age or qualification (that's why they are called entitlements) and is not socialism. EIC and food stamps etc. are welfare programs. Learn to know the difference between these two concepts/programs.
I agree and never said they were. HOWEVER we both know communists have a place under the liberal wing of the (D's), not the (R's).
Maybe, maybe not. He certainly was a flawed man, but remember it is not so much the messenger, but the message that is important. The "Red Menace" was in fact out there much more so than the "black listed" people comprised. Granted there can be a philosophical/reasoned debate as to whether people should be persecuted for their political beliefs, even if those beliefs might lead to the overthrow of our society. Yet within the lens of that period of our history, being a communist was worthy of condemnation.
I know what you mean, but I am not sure that is an accurate statement. Many times it is perceived that rebellion from authority is a liberal mentality. However that is applying our modern American view to our own time. The Founding Fathers were considered treasonous, terrorists, etc., yet they were primarily against taxation without representation. I'd say that is fairly close to the way the members of the Tea Party portray themselves. Also rebellion from an Monarchy is hardly a liberal or conservative notion. So to say the FF's were leftist is to apply a certain lens to history which is not entirely accurate.
`
Your assumption that Communists are criminal or evil is a problem. They are neither. So it doesn't matter if they are on the left side of the political spectrum. Their numbers are so small in the United States, in the 1950's and today, that they are politically irrelevant.
McCarthy's fear-mongering and subsequent persecution of a politically irrelevant group of people solely for the purpose of advancing his own political ambitions is most deserving of being reviled.
And the Founding Fathers were absolutely, unequivocally political liberals of their time. The very concept, that a people could rule themselves, was beyond liberal for the times. The Tea Party is not advancing new or revolutionary ideas, the Tea Party is advancing reactionary ideas. And rebellion from a Monarchy in the mid to late 18th idea was decidedly a liberal notion.
I don't know what the "left" likes or doesn't .. but it seems to me it's the radical right, the anarchists and the Tea Party folks who don't support our national values and system of government. Pretty obviously so, I'd say.
Please provide some examples that the right doesn't support our national values and system of government. I'll wait.
Please provide some examples that the right doesn't support our national values and system of government. I'll wait.
I believe that both the right and the left do some pretty inexplicable things that certainly defy what I think our national values and system of government are.
But, to provide examples, I think the right's support of torture of terrorist prisoners does not support our national values.
I also think the right's attempts to pass laws prohibiting Sharia principles to be practiced by citizens is against our national values.
I'm sure you have a different perspective. But to me, Americans don't torture their prisoners is a pretty clear-cut principle. And to me, freedom of religion, again, is a pretty clear-cut principle. When you begin compromising such principles, you're essentially saying that our national values don't mean much.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." -Thomas Jefferson
This country was founded by people who hated corporate power. But today's conservatives fight for CEO's to run our government, they fight for corporate tax cuts, and they fight for corporate deregulation.
And our country was also created by men like Andrew Jackson. Do you know how much Andrew Jackson respected his soldiers and regular Americans? Men like Andrew Jackson would have killed you for your un-gentleman like behavior towards the poor and regular Americans.
When this country was founded we all rode horses and worked on farms, but as America grew and became more advanced we moved into cities. With these living changes problems arose, like the elderly not having money and the poor not living well. This caused past Americans to create things like Social Security, create welfare and Medicare, build highways, build electricity lines, create national parks, create public schools, do scientific research for our health, ex.ex.
Our past leaders created the country we now live in. And when I was a kid everyone said we lived in the greatest country on Earth. But republicans in the last 15 years decided that they no longer like the country that past Americans created.
To answer your question, Liberals love the way our country was founded, and we like the country we live in today. But todays conservatives hate the country that our past Americans created.
Just the opposite is true. You have the views of the left/liberals reversed with the conservatives.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
