Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In 2003 we were #24 in Math.
9 years later in 2012 we are #36 in Math.
Each 3 years the PISA shows us falling lower.
:iagree:
By say 2022, I'd figure the Congo and Somalia to have us beat. We get lazier and more ignorant every day because we choose to. Nothing short of massive cultural upheaval can stop that now.
Here are today's 2012 PISA average scores ranked by the mean across the
three subjects. Americans' scores by race are broken out to make the
comparisons less misleading. In summary, each race in America appears to
average a little better than their racial cousins overseas. (By the way, in
the following list, the italicized names refer to non-OECD places):
Takes me back to the '80's when the Japanese kids were going to be our corporate overlords.
Meanwhile, Japan struggles to recover from their 'lost decade' of the '90's and those kids are playing video games and refusing to get married.
I agree with this. Though I do feel that our educational system could use some overhauling, I am not afraid of the Asians. We have been "threatened" by other nations as well academically in the past. I remember the "Japan will take over the world" mantras in the 80s. It never happened. I don't doubt that our country (USA) will decline eventually on the world stage but I don't see it happening any time soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
We also have the same length of school years up here.
And before someone trots out the excuse of "Yeah, but other countries don't mainstream the kids with learning challenges"......yes, we do. Same as you.
Or how about "Other countries don't have the same video game distractions".....yes, we do. Same as you.
Also wanted to agree with this. Other countries implore similar educational philosophies as the US in not tracking children until nearly high school, when the kids themselves and their families chose a certain track versus being put into a box (which used to happen in this country) in the past. Also special needs students are prominent in other countries as well and immigrants, yet they still perform better on these test versus our nation.
I personally feel that it has primarily to do with the prestige and education of teachers in those respective countries. Our teachers are vilified and put under the microscope and criticized for things that they had no control and are not given benefits or compensation anywhere near other nations. I do feel that unions and home lives of children make an impact but most industrialized nations have unionization of public workers, including teachers and all countries have children who live in poverty stricken conditions (based on their country's definition of poverty) yet they do not make excuses (like so many are doing in this thread) or put the onus of fixing society on not as highly educated/qualified teachers while also stiffing them in pay and benefits in compared to other public occupations that do not have as much impact on society as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey
There are several reasons for this, with a few suggestions:
1. Kids should go to school on Saturday, at least for certain weeks. 2. They need to eliminate this ridiculous summer break where kids lose 1/3 of what they learned all year. 3. They should separate girls and boy in academic classes 4. It should be easier to expel trouble-makers
5. Parents need to be involved in their kid's education
6. They should identify kids who want to learn a technical skill and kids who are more scholastic minded, and train them accordingly (not everyone should get a 4, 5, 6 or 8 year college degree).
7. Work with unions to make it easier to get rid of poor teachers
8. Change the anti-intellectual culture of US teens.
In regards to the above, I think the bolded areas are quite feasible and doable as many charter schools already employ them and have much better outcomes on standardized testing with impoverished, minority children compared to similar children in traditional public schools.
The KIPP schools here in Atlanta actually do have Saturday school twice per month for students. Another school here - Drew Charter School also has mandatory Saturday school for students who are below grade level or for kids who start off okay but then start to slip and need additional help catching up. Both have shorter summer breaks and expel troublemakers and don't have teachers unions in a traditional sense. Both also are some of the highest performing schools on standardized testing in our district.
I honestly feel that the reason American students aren't performing better is due to prejudice, in fighting, and excuse making of adults in general and society as a whole in our country - not the kids, not the parents, and not the educators by themselves. People here do not see our schools as "ours." Many would like to take away public education period and don't care about other people's kids and have individualistic, selfish attitudes over an issue that affects our whole country.
But FWIW, I don't see one test as indicative of any specific problems. I have never heard of this test until I came to these forums and don't ever remember taking it at all in school and I was a TAG kid (talented and gifted) and was tested many times on the Iowa test and other states, one from California I remember but never this one. So I wonder when this test is given and to whom, is it a sampling or is everyone required to take it. When does this testing occur? I don't think my teen nephews or cousins take it either and all are pretty bright.
Okay, had time to read this article. I see this PISA test has only been around since 2000.
Also that only 6100 American 15 year olds were tested.....
I don't see how such a small sampling is indicative of anything. Until there is a test that all students must participate in all country's in order to compare academics, I would not take this seriously.
FWIW, I still believe that other countries are superior to ours educationally in many areas. Not necessarily Asian countries though as I don't know enough about them. But I actually have a couple friends who live in Canada and the UK who are teachers or training to be teachers (as their American credentials were not "enough" to teach in their new country of residence) and I do think both of those countries have a better educational system than ours for many reasons, primarily having to do with solid primary education at an earlier age than America.
A friend of mine in the UK says that all the children start school at 3 years old. If we instituted this here in the US I believe it could make a big difference, especially in regards to kids with parents who don't read to them or do anything of academic or learning value with their children and just keep them at home until 6 years old and send them off already behind most other American kids. And I don't mean Head Start (don't have huge issues with Head Start either, I went as a child and was given my TAG label there due to a doctor telling my mom I was "retarded" lol because I didn't talk much so she was told to put me into Head Start to get speech therapy for my "retardedness"). I mean real, high quality, school with high quality teachers. In France preschool teachers must have advanced degrees and go through many years of on the job training under the guidance of their superiors. We should absolutely have this here in America for every child - from poverty stricken to rich IMO - but of course that will not happen because we are cheap and don't want to pay for that.
Okay, had time to read this article. I see this PISA test has only been around since 2000.
Also that only 6100 American 15 year olds were tested.....
I don't see how such a small sampling is indicative of anything. Until there is a test that all students must participate in all country's in order to compare academics, I would not take this seriously.
FWIW, I still believe that other countries are superior to ours educationally in many areas. Not necessarily Asian countries though as I don't know enough about them. But I actually have a couple friends who live in Canada and the UK who are teachers or training to be teachers (as their American credentials were not "enough" to teach in their new country of residence) and I do think both of those countries have a better educational system than ours for many reasons, primarily having to do with solid primary education at an earlier age than America.
A friend of mine in the UK says that all the children start school at 3 years old. If we instituted this here in the US I believe it could make a big difference, especially in regards to kids with parents who don't read to them or do anything of academic or learning value with their children and just keep them at home until 6 years old and send them off already behind most other American kids. And I don't mean Head Start (don't have huge issues with Head Start either, I went as a child and was given my TAG label there due to a doctor telling my mom I was "retarded" lol because I didn't talk much so she was told to put me into Head Start to get speech therapy for my "retardedness"). I mean real, high quality, school with high quality teachers. In France preschool teachers must have advanced degrees and go through many years of on the job training under the guidance of their superiors. We should absolutely have this here in America for every child - from poverty stricken to rich IMO - but of course that will not happen because we are cheap and don't want to pay for that.
Many don't. I guess they would if we were inching up but we are falling down.
Look at PISA like a global SAT.
And if students from MA (which has the best US education record) didn't participate then we might have been lower then #36.
Most Americans do scoff this off every 3 years because we do worse with each PISA.
Instead they should worry about it. The selection process is the same in all countries.
No matter which way you look at it we don't look good.
If we're doing "the same" as NCES Commissioner stated then there are countries surpassing us.
We've gone from #24 to #36 in less than 10 years.
This is the point. The PISA standards have not changed, but our relative position within those standards has decreased. And it is funny to see all the excuse making, when the bottom line is we simply expect less and we get less as a result.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
