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Old 07-22-2014, 10:08 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I think you're reading more into this than actually exists. The issue at hand is that the law explicitly provides for subsidies for people who enroll in state exchanges, but does not provide for subsidies for those who enroll under the Federal exchange.
Correct.

Quote:
Regardless of the perceived "intent" of Democrats to push the costs onto the States, the underlying issue here is that there is no language in the law providing for subsidies for federal exchange participants.
Correct.

Quote:
The Court's ruling is that Democrats and Congress were not able to sufficiently demonstrate their "intent" was to have States run their own exchange, even if the language on subsidies points that direction.
The bottom line is, Democrats failed big time on writing this legislation. Very rarely does major legislation make it through with such a major oversight. Like I said before, most legislation has some sort of semantical escape hatch built in to cover the ambiguities. And even with the semantical escape hatc, small errors are identified and corrected all the time, but this as a major, major omission on their part. And that's what the Court pointed to in its ruling.
As far as the ruling goes I completely agree with you. The court ruled that the intent was to provide subsidies for the state run exchanges only.

Then we can discuss why they did that.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
The problem is that Congress just figured all the states would just roll over and implement the law.
They couldn't make it mandatory, although they tried blackmail with the expanded medicaid but a judge fixed that one.

They danced along the lines of what was legal for them to mandate on states.
Now we see the aftermath due to states not rolling over quietly and implementing what the Fed said.

I suspect the courts will allow the subsidies in the end.
You can't give people "free money" and then take it away from them.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,229,228 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
Someone with half a brain that passed the bar should have caught this. They rushed this through and now real people will pay the consequences.
We had to pass it to know what was in it
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:21 AM
 
9,870 posts, read 7,747,075 times
Reputation: 24599
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
This was a proof reading error in the original law. Someone at some level should have caught it. The two judges are trying to undo the law based on a technicality. This actually puts the Republican states in a predicament like Arizona where they supported Medicaid expansion. Now the Republicans will be in the position of telling people on the exchanges "sorry you dont get any help."

BREAKING: Two Republican Judges Order Obamacare Defunded | ThinkProgress
This issue was brought up many times at congressional hearings and Sebelius & the rest of the administration ignored the questions and gave the impression that they were above the law and it didn't matter.

Well guess what, it does matter.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:24 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,068,868 times
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That illogic has already been tried. It is not intent, it is the word(s) of the law. And those words, "state exchanges occur in more than one section. Some drafting error.

Justice Roberts foretold this, as well as the Hobby Lobby decision, when he wrote the majority opinion on the penalty/tax individual mandate. WAPO said it best, when discussing the penalty/tax for not complying with the individual mandate ruling.

By ramming through the original law, in the dead of night in a shifty parliamentary maneuver Dems have made the bed in which they have been laying. Was it worth it Joe, to achieve a big f*0(king deal? Was it worth it Nancy to pass something to read it later?
Roberts
Quote:
Roberts said in his opinion that he was not making a judgment about the wisdom of the policy; he said only that it was constitutionally permissible. He has thrown the debate over health care back into the political arena for adjudication in November and perhaps beyond.
Bibically speaking, a house built on sand will not stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
This was a proof reading error in the original law. Someone at some level should have caught it. The two judges are trying to undo the law based on a technicality. This actually puts the Republican states in a predicament like Arizona where they supported Medicaid expansion. Now the Republicans will be in the position of telling people on the exchanges "sorry you dont get any help."

BREAKING: Two Republican Judges Order Obamacare Defunded | ThinkProgress
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
The Dems knew they were going to lose the House so they just passed whatever was written to get it passed.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,447 posts, read 4,756,035 times
Reputation: 15354
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
I think this time around the SC will vote 5-4 to uphold the Appeals Court ruling.

Until then, I suppose the Senate will amend the law to cover subsidies under the federal exchange, putting the House on the spot.
Nah, you can be sure that whatever Justice Roberts was blackmailed with last time around will be dredged back up for this round as well.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,795,791 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That's what they said.

What you got was subsidized insurance with high deductibles and out of pocket costs.
Exactly what the insurance companies wanted. With all the subsidies pouring into their coffers it was the perfect scheme to move a massive amount of wealth from the populous to themselves; and btw, they were the architects of ACA in the first place.

Americans have become willing marks to the cronies on the hill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
This was a proof reading error in the original law. Someone at some level should have caught it. The two judges are trying to undo the law based on a technicality. This actually puts the Republican states in a predicament like Arizona where they supported Medicaid expansion. Now the Republicans will be in the position of telling people on the exchanges "sorry you dont get any help."
You're cutting and pasting what Think Progress publishes as if it's the gospel; C'mon man!
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:40 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,138,171 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Correct.



Correct.



As far as the ruling goes I completely agree with you. The court ruled that the intent was to provide subsidies for the state run exchanges only.

Then we can discuss why they did that.
I agree that Democrats sought to push the cost onto the States. Obviously their intent backfired.

Many times, Congressional intent is demonstrated through rulemaking, which is an Executive Branch function. The Executive Branch has had since the 2012 Obamacare-is-legal Supreme Court ruling to demonstrate its intent through the rulemaking process. So, what we have here is a colossal failure on two fronts.....the enabling legislation didn't speak to federal exchange subsidies.....and Dept. of Health and Human Services failed to recognize the flaw and enact rules to correct the flaw. The Administration is incompetent, at best, and the Court had really no other option but to call them out for their incompetence.

No doubt this rule stings the White House quite hard.....especially since it likely could have been corrected through a rulemaking expressing HHS's interpretation of Congressional intent (which happens all the time.) Now that the Court has ruled, there's no opportunity for a rulemaking to correct this.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:46 AM
 
11,185 posts, read 6,512,917 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
Nah, you can be sure that whatever Justice Roberts was blackmailed with last time around will be dredged back up for this round as well.
I'm figuring Roberts gave them one vote and the ACA mandate was it. Just a guess.
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