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Old 10-07-2014, 07:11 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,519,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It pretty much is over among climate scientists.
No, it really isn't. Not among actual scientists, that is, as they would know better.

The term "settled science" is at odds with the very essence of what science really is.

Skepticism and debate are not contrary to science. In fact they are the central essence of science.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,521,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
No, it really isn't. Not among actual scientists, that is, as they would know better.

The term "settled science" is at odds with the very essence of what science really is.

Skepticism and debate are not contrary to science. In fact they are the central essence of science.
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:49 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,519,803 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
Except that the predicted temperature increases have not materialized. Nor have tides risen or storms increased as the warmists have prognosticated.

The warmists models, upon which all of their alarmist hyperbole have been based, have been wrong. All of them. And all in the same direction, to the high side.

As far as anyone saying that mankind has absolutely, positively NO effect on the Earth's climate of any sort, there is nobody of any note who has said that. And as far as I can tell, nobody here on this board has said that either. Which means that it appears that you just made that up.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,990,747 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.



The other thing that is now settled is th amount of carbon containing fossil fuels and the estimate is 5000 gigatons (this assumes we find ways beyond current technology to extract the 2/3 of it we can't extract now) and at current use rates this will be consumed in 2000 years (much less if we can't get our hands on 2/3s of it) , if we assume all of mankind will be enjoying a energy intensive future (high standard of living) and then even modest rates of growth in energy useage (because this is needed to accommodate a small rate of growth ) will exhaust all our fossil fuels in several centuries so the use of fossil fuels containing carbon will come to an end. Regardless of what we do or not do. So after that milestone in human civilization we will either use other means to generate energy (renewables, geothermal, nuclear, fusion or some other magic based on physics unknown today (dilithium crystals, quantum fluctuations) or return to a civilization that uses little or no energy compared to today (for example the way we lived and governed our selves 2000 years ago (i.e. like in Augustus' Rome or Han China) . In either case we will live in a world where there has been a ten-fold increase in CO2 in the atmosphere and based on our knowledge of rates of CO2 removal from the air and recycling of carbon back into the Earth from where we took it, roughly400,000 years from now the amount of CO2 in he air will begin to approach pre-industrial levels so climate can begin to return to what it is like today. So during the next 400,000 years we are in for a New World largely of our own making.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Where you aren't
1,245 posts, read 923,635 times
Reputation: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
Lets get to the bottom of this, Who said it was settled?
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,177 posts, read 4,791,608 times
Reputation: 2587
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
What "more powerful" storms?

Gees would you people provide PROOF, not repetitions of AGW talking points.
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,177 posts, read 4,791,608 times
Reputation: 2587
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It pretty much is over among climate scientists.
Oh, so the "climate" so called scientists say it is settled. That about makes me a disciple. ... NOT

You and your disciples have continually DENIED that no one but a "climate" scientist has the chops to look at the data, run the numbers, and reach a valid conclusion. Not mathematicians, not physicists, not rocket sceinetists, not weathermen, not anyone but your chosen few.

Too bad your "climate" so called scientists dont have the courage to go head to head with their critics. Maybe we could see some real debate.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:33 AM
 
1,824 posts, read 1,371,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Among climate scientists the fact of AGW IS settled and the debate IS over....
Your side claims that man is responsible for runaway warming because of CO2 emissions. For 16 years now, the warming has been slowing DESPITE the same or higher levels of emissions. This thread references a report from NASA saying that the heat is not being sequestered in the deep ocean and the amount in the shallow ocean is not enough to account for the pause.

Now while this doesn't DISPROVE AGW, it sure as hell calls it into question. It sure as hell means that the science ISN'T settled and the debate ISN'T over.

Any other scientific theory that were met with such real world behavior that disputes it's basic criterion would be rigorously and thoroughly reexamined. Instead, the AGW crowd is still proceeding as if their theory is indisputable fact and seeking to do experiments and observations which validate it instead of being open to finding the TRUTH even if it disputes AGW. This is the scientific process in reverse!

I fail to understand why the AGW crowd is so eager to shut down debate and shut down questions. That only makes for better science. It means that they aren't really interested in good science, they are interested in dogma and the rest of us are supposed to shut our mouths, be quiet and do what we're told. Well that isn't happening, so they need to vilify the skeptics as "deniers", "flat-earthers" or sellouts to big oil and conservative groups.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,938,118 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
They are already happening when it comes to Hurricanes, they have become fewer in number but their power has increased dramatically, something predicted several years back. Thing is it does not matter if we believe GW is happening or not, mother nature does not require we believe in the science since it simply is what it is. Is it manmade or even partially manmade, that is still open to debate. I for one take the stand that mankind has had dramatic effect on the oceans and land and waterways, not to mention the air itself, so to say we could not effect the temp of the planets is simply living in denial. I believe we are only caretakers of the planet and we as good caretakers must make our destructive impact as minimal as possible and to hand over a health planet to the next generations, that means doing all we can to not pollute or over use the planets limited resources and also includes keeping the population as levels that the planet can sustain. Population is a major problem, and if we do not control it's levels, we aren't, then mother nature has a solution and that is the removal of the excess population through starvation and new and more lethal viruses that will reduce our numbers, not to mention our own manmade method of population control, War. So we can ignore reality and play Russian Roulette and leave it up to chance or we can do what we can do and hope for the best, at least in the second scenario we have some hope, in the first scenario sooner or later that gun is going to go off and that will be that, and maybe that is the way it is supposed to be.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,418,303 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
What is settled is the effect mankind's use of fossil fuels is having on the earth's climate.

What exactly will result from the increased temperatures, the rising tides, the more powerful storms, etc., etc., will never be entirely known until it happens, but trends, models, forecasts, and scientific analysis can give a pretty accurate picture of the consequences we can expect. They have been felt for decades already and show no sign of lessening.

Only a fool believes that mankind has no effect on the earths climate.
Every species affects its environment.
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