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How many insults and foul language can I cause in two posts?
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Bull ****..
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Originally Posted by pghquest
If homes drop in price 20% and incomes drop 10%, we have deflation but people are in a far better position than before. To conclude that because **** costs more now than last year, we're better is asinine..
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Again, stop the kook theories you read on a kracker Jack box..
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Originally Posted by Mircea
Perhaps in your Wonderverse, but not in Reality.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
So you can imitate Orwell. So what?
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Originally Posted by Mircea
You only know that because I beat what's-his-name over the head with it.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
Laughing at the superior intellect...
Mircea
.....you guys need to construct your arguments better. Insults hurt your own credibility.
The national debt is money creation. Period, end of story. Pundits have been claiming the apolocalypse for almost 100 years.
uhm... logic says you are wrong
if there is no debt....why do we list it
if debt is money created(asset)...then why do we call it debt
debt is debt...be it from one person to another entity (think mortgage)..or be it governmental (inter government, and intra government(ie gov dept to goce dept..or country to country)
debt is debt...and 18 trillion in actual debt..is gross mismanagement (we wont even talk about the unrealized debt (ie pensions, ss.medicaid, ect))
oh and one last thing...if debt isn't....then why do we pay interest on said debt...even has a line in the budget for interest of debt...and if that interest (which is current real low,) goes up that means the payments (which are currently about 500 billion) will go up...way up
I used a Big Mac as an example in order to not confuse you. I know dam well what deflation is but just because people are saving more money on a "macroeconomic" scale, doesnt mean we are worse off.
Yes actually we are. Explain why governments bend over backwards to prevent deflation.
(Hint: the term spiral)
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Originally Posted by pghquest
If I can buy a home for $100k rather than $200K, this doesnt mean that I'm worse off than before.. To conclude this is true is idioic..
You should open your mind. If we had a deflationary economic system, why would you buy that house for $100K when it will be $90K next year?
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Originally Posted by pghquest
I made no such assumption, but to conclude that gasoline doesnt affect costs of products is retarded. The government does NOT control inflation, it reacts to it to try to limit the damage.
I never said gasoline prices didn't. I actually confirmed that in the post you quoted.
The government controls currency inflation through interest rates and the printing press. It adjusts monetary policy accordingly to its optimal goal. I've said countless times that oil & energy prices drive inflation, and the Fed reacts to those.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
do you really believe the government controlled the economic crash?
Bull ****..
I never said that at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
If homes drop in price 20% and incomes drop 10%, we have deflation but people are in a far better position than before. To conclude that because **** costs more now than last year, we're better is asinine..
Over time, it is not assinine. Like I said, what incentive do you have to spend money today if it is always more valuable tomorrow? Make up hypothetical scenarios all you want; it doesn't make your position any less backwards.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
I didnt state over what period of time this doubling would occur. Big macs are now 4x as expensive as they were 20 years ago.. Are we in a better financial situation now than 20 years ago? no.. just because **** costs more, doesnt mean we're better. In fact we have far more poverty now, but you think we're booming...
Again, asinine
We are "booming." The 1% are doing phenomenally well. You just aren't seeing the gains.
Hence, why I brought up income inequality.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
more bull crap. Bill Gates for example has huge wealth inequality compared to his employees, but his employees are making 6 figures a year..
I said income inequality.. and it was a macroeconomic statement (as are all these arguments).
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Originally Posted by pghquest
What exactly do you think the rich do with their money? Put it under their mattress? Asinine..
Tax havens, charities, lobbying, re-investing in their business, etc.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
A minute ago you said government controls inflation...
Stop misrepresenting my posts, thanks.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
But here you got it close to correct.
Economic activity is what grows the economy, not inflation. If I pay you $50 to cut my grass and you pay me $50 for a book I have for sale, this results in $100 economic activity but there isnt any inflation taking place from the transaction. Inflation would be if you would have charged me $45 to cut my grass and that very same book last year was $45..
Thats a 10% inflation rate but the exact same economic activity. There was no increase in a demand for goods or services... and no one is better off because the price of **** just rose 10%
Again, stop the kook theories you read on a kracker Jack box..
If you pay me $50, there is no inflation. Money is just changing hands.
Perhaps you should re-examine my "theories" more closely. I specifically cite public sector - private sector interactions, not private sector - private sector interactions.
Sorry but in real world Govt needs income. Even though the need for the dollar is questioned, a need for value in one form or another (dollar,yuan,bitcoin) determines what a society can do. Without income Govt would need debt in some form. That debt needs to be repaid or we live in a utopia where the sun always comes out and nothing bad ever happens.
............the government needs no income. It didn't need it yesterday, doesn't need it today, won't need it tomorrow.
It pays bills by instructing the bank to credit it's sovereign currency into your checking account. Poof!
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Even keynesian economic theories say you are wrong. In fact they rely upon government generating income to pay off the dam debt you keep proclaiming is "printed", when in reality its SOLD...
No it doesn't
The "debt" isn't analogous to household finances. It can't be "paid off." It is a running count of money in circulation.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
The two are not related.
Income inequality is indeed related to disposable income. To say otherwise is laughable.
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Originally Posted by Mircea
Demand does not cause Inflation. When taxes or other regulatory actions increase the prices of goods and services, that's Cost-push Inflation. It has nothing to do with Demand, but thanks for your display of ignorance.
.....so you omit demand-pull inflation?
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Originally Posted by Mircea
Tell us again why the price of DVD players decrease 1000% against increasing Demand.
...and if those DVD players are made of a finite material / resource like oil? What would happen to the price over time?
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Originally Posted by Hoonose
Our Gov't could certainly create our currency without debt. That has been suggested by many great people in the past.
But even as our money/debt exists today, much of our national debt will never be paid off. Possibly paid down, but most likely, barring a national size catastrophe, in 10 and then 100 years our debt will be progressively larger as we grow in size, population and output.
"Could" is irrelevant. Our government creates currency through deficit spending.
if debt is money created(asset)...then why do we call it debt
Logic says I'm right. Get over it.
Debt is an asset for the private sector. It is a liability for the government. Double entry bookkeeping.
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
debt is debt...be it from one person to another entity (think mortgage)..or be it governmental (inter government, and intra government(ie gov dept to goce dept..or country to country)
debt is debt...and 18 trillion in actual debt..is gross mismanagement (we wont even talk about the unrealized debt (ie pensions, ss.medicaid, ect))
"Unrealized debt" is rhetoric. It has nothing to do with our ability to "pay" (i.e. issue more currency). The government will pay those entitlements the same way it pays for everything else.
It will instruct the bank to issue the recpient's account the amount of dollars. Poof!
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
oh and one last thing...if debt isn't....then why do we pay interest on said debt...even has a line in the budget for interest of debt...and if that interest (which is current real low,) goes up that means the payments (which are currently about 500 billion) will go up...way up
We don't. They are numbers on a piece of paper.
Tell us... what happens to the "interest" on the national debt?
Congress has power to coin money (stamp bullion) and borrow money. IF Congress could create money, why would it need to borrow it? (Art. 1, Sec. 8, Sec. 10, USCON)
Based on the Coinage Act of 1792, 18 trillion dollars computes to 900 billion ounces of gold, stamped into coin.
Fort Knox allegedly holds 147 million ounces.
World wide supply is estimated at 5.6 billion ounces.
Exactly what did Congress borrow to rack up owing 894.4 billion ounces of gold?
A Federal Reserve Note ("dollar bill") is a promise (debt) to pay face value on demand. (See Title 12 USC Sec. 411). But that promise was repudiated in House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933.
Then there is that peculiar confiscation of lawful money from Americans, in 1933. And the criminalization for owning lawful money by "free" Americans.
And how did a worthless note become legal tender in lieu of lawful money?
Congress has power to coin money (stamp bullion) and borrow money. IF Congress could create money, why would it need to borrow it? (Art. 1, Sec. 8, Sec. 10, USCON)
Based on the Coinage Act of 1792, 18 trillion dollars computes to 900 billion ounces of gold, stamped into coin.
Fort Knox allegedly holds 147 million ounces.
World wide supply is estimated at 5.6 billion ounces.
Exactly what did Congress borrow to rack up owing 894.4 billion ounces of gold?
A Federal Reserve Note ("dollar bill") is a promise (debt) to pay face value on demand. (See Title 12 USC Sec. 411). But that promise was repudiated in House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933.
Then there is that peculiar confiscation of lawful money from Americans, in 1933. And the criminalization for owning lawful money by "free" Americans.
And how did a worthless note become legal tender in lieu of lawful money?
Best not to think about such things....
Actually minting coins is part of the Executive. The Treasury.
Congress has power to coin money (stamp bullion) and borrow money. IF Congress could create money, why would it need to borrow it? (Art. 1, Sec. 8, Sec. 10, USCON)
Based on the Coinage Act of 1792, 18 trillion dollars computes to 900 billion ounces of gold, stamped into coin.
Fort Knox allegedly holds 147 million ounces.
World wide supply is estimated at 5.6 billion ounces.
Exactly what did Congress borrow to rack up owing 894.4 billion ounces of gold?
A Federal Reserve Note ("dollar bill") is a promise (debt) to pay face value on demand. (See Title 12 USC Sec. 411). But that promise was repudiated in House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933.
Then there is that peculiar confiscation of lawful money from Americans, in 1933. And the criminalization for owning lawful money by "free" Americans.
And how did a worthless note become legal tender in lieu of lawful money?
Best not to think about such things....
Oh look, someone who equates current debt with the gold standard, then talks about how we arent on the gold standard anymore.
Sigh.
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