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The cop was cleared because he was restraining a man twice his size who had a criminal record AND was just involved in a fight. He was a known problem in the community. This isn't about race. It's about officer safety. Don't pick fights with cops and they won't choke you out or shoot you. It's really that simple.
I wasn't aware that he was "picking a fight with a cop". I don't think telling someone to leave you alone is the same thing as picking a fight?
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Originally Posted by dman72
I find your lack of humanity disturbing, as well as the cops.
This is what bothers me as well. The defenders of this police officer are seemingly making the argument that the cop did absolutely nothing wrong.
We can have a debate whether or not the cop should go to jail, but anyone who can't see that what this cop did was wrong, is severely lacking in humanity.
My position is largely the same as Bill O'Reilly's. I think he sounds very reasonable. While Tavis Smiley represents the more irrational group who basically wants the cop to hang, and wants to turn this into a race issue.
I'm actually annoyed that race is being used in this at all. I agree with Bill O'Reilly. Had it been a large white guy, the same thing would have happened. I think by making this a black-white issue, you are forcing people to take the more radical sides of either irrationally defending the cops, or irrationally hating the cops. I would rather this just be a human issue about "excessive use of force". Which is a major problem in America, regardless of skin color.
This happened from a combination of stupid laws, and the police increasingly seeing civilians as their enemy. Basically, "If We're Afraid Of The Police And Police Are Afraid Of Us, What Are We Supposed To Do?".
By the way, did Eric Garner ever have a "real" job? He was 43 and I can't find anything about his occupation. Except for being arrested 31 times, collecting Welfare and selling loose cigarettes, what else did he do?
"Mr. Garner, who was at least 6 feet 3 inches tall and who, friends said, had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.
Don't even bother arguing a lucent and logical point with anyone who unilaterally refuses to look at the evidence and how the applicable laws in this case.
The police operate in a bubble of immunity since their "job" requires such because we don't want "bad guys" suing the police left and right. It's a system that works if there is honor and integrity adhered to by everyone in it. Remember when one of the worst things in the world was to be a "bad cop"? Those on the force that were "good cops " DESPISED and ostersized the bad ones. Today, there is no such thing as a "bad cop" all cops regardless of action are "good". If you're "in" the circle of police then that bubble of immunity will protect you. Imagine the feeling of invincibility one may have when just about all your actions good or bad will be "protected".
Police Internal investigations is like asking a guy cheating on his wife to investigate himself for "wrong doing". He'll come up clean every time. Given that, the Justice Department should continue to probe the Staten Island and Ferguson incidents.
That's true, but he had been arrested 31 times and was out on bail. Maybe this time he wasn't doing anything wrong. Doesn't matter. The police had every right to question him, although the end result was tragic.
They can ask him anything they want. He doesn't have to answer and they can't arrest him for that.
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By the way, did Eric Garner ever have a "real" job? He was 43 and I can't find anything about his occupation. Except for being arrested 31 times, collecting Welfare and selling loose cigarettes, what else did he do?
I hope someone doesn't twist my words around and accuse me of saying poor people should be arrested or assaulted by the police. I'm just curious.
If you don't want people to question your motives it's probably wise to not worry about irrelevant questions.
Most cops who kill civilians get away with it, no matter how egregious the circumstances.
Very few are indicted, and even fewer are found guilty of a crime, and sentenced.
That is the larger problem, most cops are good but the system is set up to protect them no matter what they do, lack of convictions, light sentences. We had a case on LI where 2 off duty cops were out drinking all night and got into a road rage situation with a cab driver and ended up shooting him. They weren't even indicted and stayed on the job for years.
There is a deadly force police team that investigates whenever a cop uses his gun, not one cop has been found at fault in any incident.
No, you get over yourself....there is nothing wrong with Jesus, and you know that, and you know exactly what I was talking about....using Jesus to prove a point....
First, I made the point before I even mentioned Jesus. Secondly, I was only referencing the bible because I use the concept of "casting the first stone" on a fairly regular basis. I use references to everything and everyone. If the bible is merely a book(as many argue it is), then why can't I quote it like I quote every other book or person?
Regardless, the parable seemed perfectly applicable to this debate.
Difference is, Obama didn't get caught, and Obama didn't have a long standing record of arrests, no comparison.....
Look, whether you get caught or not doesn't change who you are. It only changes the way others perceive you.
As an example. There might be a sixteen-year-old girl who had sex one time and got pregnant. While there is another sixteen-year-old girl who has been with twenty or thirty men but never got pregnant.
Who gets called the *****?
Whether someone has a "record" or not, doesn't automatically make them guilty. Every event is separate from all other events, unless the previous events are known by the actors and are applicable to the singular event. In this case, the police officers weren't behaving this way because Garner had a previous record. They were merely behaving this way because that is how the police behave. It could have been his first offense and the same thing would have happened. Thus, Garner's previous record isn't applicable, and the crime he was supposedly committing was about as non-violent a crime as there can possibly be.
My point about Obama is that, we need to be careful about how "unnecessary laws" can change the entire psychology of America. Had Obama been arrested in his youth for a crime such as cocaine possession. It would have changed his entire life. He would have become increasingly hostile towards the police, and it would have severely reduced his opportunities to advance his life. Basically, Obama would have just turned into "another black criminal" instead of the President of the United States.
We want a system which makes sense. Which isn't out to punish anyone. The system we have now doesn't adequately do that in my view. And in my view, it is the existence of "bad laws" which does most of the harm.
As I said, it seems a bit ironic that the same laws Obama broke in his youth, which had he been caught breaking them, would have effectively "ruined his life". Are the same laws Obama continues to defend and enforce. Drug crimes are victim-less crimes.
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
I don't care, laws sometimes may be unfair, but they are there for a reason, you don't intentionally break them and not expect some kind of consequence?????????
They may be there for a reason, but it doesn't mean they are there for a good reason. I mean, you are basically pretending that we should follow all laws regardless of what they are. To explain how absurd that argument is, all we really have to do is look at someone like Rosa Parks. Who wasn't even the first person to refuse to give up their seat.
There are bad laws. In fact, there are a lot of bad laws. I would say 90% of the laws on the books do more harm than good. As a general rule, these laws aren't changed until there are a few "martyrs" that cause the ordinary people to notice and complain.
That it just the way it is.
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
so what, so your neighbor pays taxes and you don't....that's fair, no, it's down right wrong and breaking the law, no matter how you try and cut it, period.
Look, we aren't talking about a tax which is designed to be equally enforceable on all people. We aren't talking about an income tax here, or a property tax. We are talking about a tax which is aimed at a certain class of people, and his highly punitive for no reason other than the government's desire to regulate behavior.
One might remember that one of the first rebellion's in US History was the "Whiskey Rebellion". It would be nice if Americans still held the same spirit of resistance that we had in those days. Then maybe these stupid laws would be repealed.
In contrast to Ferguson, I'm surprised and disappointed that there was no indictment in this case, that, while I have no idea what the evidence was that was presented to the grand jury, the video certainty appeared to me to show excessive force on the part of the police.
Definately, and it sure looked like excessive force was used.
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
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Keeping things in perspective, this is Staten Island, home of congressman Grimm who has 20+ counts of federal felony charges and STILL won re-election. He was also told a report to his face while being video taped that he would break him like a boy and throw him off the balcony (see link):
The folks that typically seem to serve on Grand Jurys seem to be incapable of thinking for themselves. Prosecutors brag about being able to indict a ham sandwich and the way that they do that is by getting these simple minded morons to do whatever they want! Prosecutors run the Grand Jury. Most of the time they get why they want. Sad and disgusting.
"Mr. Garner, who was at least 6 feet 3 inches tall and who, friends said, had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.
Oh, please. Check the records. The Parks Dept job was apparently a Welfare-to-Work job - meaning he was mandated to work for his check and was able to get out of working due to his health issues. Oddly, he was well enough to stand on the street and play games with the cops.
That being said - of course excessive force was used and some of those officers should be off the job - including the idiot Sergeant. It was a terrible tragedy.
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