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Where I live EVERYONE has firearms. I'll repeat this EVERYONE has firearms! Yet in the 30 years I have lived here there have been NO murders by firearms. There was a woman that was strangled about 40 miles away but no firearm deaths. An interesting side note is that she had a gun but had forgotten to load it and when he entered her house she pulled the trigger and it went "click", the gun would have saved her life. In fact I can not remember one accidental firearm death.
The nearest murders by firearms have been in the cities and most of those by nexus were related to illegal drugs.
My opinion is that the people with irrational fear of firearms are wired to be victims. The mentality of victims will automatically blame the gun and not rationally look for the root cause.
If all guns were made illegal tomorrow it won't change the number of murders by firearms. In fact the murders may increase because you just made even the legal gun owners potential victims by taking their guns.
Agreed. Criminals will ALWAYS get guns illegally. We have a 2nd Ammendment, we have a right to bear arms, and that right should never be infringed. Im a proud gun owner.
We do legislate intelligence, courtesy and morals, always have.
And how is that working for us?
Because I've been watching America get dumber, ruder and cruder my entire life. Sucks to watch your country go down in a tailspin. But that's really the only way to describe it.
The best I can hope for today is to not get shot by some moron or hit head-on by a texting/drunk driver. I can pull up videos all day long of idiots with guns. There are THOUSANDS of videos. And even more morons with guns. Some of them are likely participating in this thread. Sure seems that way to me.
Agreed. Criminals will ALWAYS get guns illegally. We have a 2nd Ammendment, we have a right to bear arms, and that right should never be infringed. Im a proud gun owner.
The Second Amendment does NOT say YOU have a right to bear arms. Yes, the NRA has ranted about this in order to protect their manufacturer members, but that is NOT what the second amendment says, nor intended. Just because gun advocates repeat it over and over again doesn't make it true. Read it again, and read the legal cases which have further defined and interpreted it. Except in specific, narrow cases, the Amendment has been interpreted exactly as it was written: As part of an organized militia you may have the right to bear arms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Avocado
Do you crazy anti-gun freaks realize that criminals do not follow laws?? Take all the legal guns and then the only people with guns are cops and criminals. No thank you. Keep your laws off my body AND my guns...wtf.
Nobody...at least not me...mentioned taking any guns--legal or otherwise. What I said was, over a very long period of time, we need to migrate from guns in the public hands to guns in controlled hands. One way to do that is to control manufacture, as well as monitoring the use of a gun once it is in the public hands. Like with any commodity, once you control its manufacture it slowly becomes scarce.
If you have an idea for immediately removing guns from nefarious hands, I am all for hearing it. Otherwise, we need ideas and suggestions on how to end the senseless killing associates with guns--whether they be in the hands of so called "good" gun owners, or in the hands of "bad guys". Nobody in this discussion is naïve enough to think that you are just going to snap your fingers and guns will be gone, but if we can at least get them controlled we might end the accidents (like the guy in the gun shop who recently managed to shoot himself or the owner), the killing sprees in our public (malls and schools) places, and the suicides using the convenience of a gun. We can probably also save a few cowboys who are hell bent on "protecting their ground" and manage to get themselves shot in the process.
We need solutions, not defense of a broken system which takes lives on a daily basis.
We need solutions, not defense of a broken system which takes lives on a daily basis.
Gun fetishists defend the broken system because they realize at a gut level that they are exactly the sort of people who have no business owning firearms.
There is no difference between this moron with a gun
and this moron with a gun
moderator cut: image removed
Running into either of these people would be detrimental to my well being. Gun fetishists defend the 2nd amendment as if everyone who has a firearm is either 1) John Wayne or 2) a depraved, criminally-insane gang member. Just because they so desperately want everyone who has a gun fits into one of those two groups doesn't make it so.
And then they'll throw their hands up and say the problem is so large that it's not worth fixing. They are nothing if not predictable.
The Second Amendment does NOT say YOU have a right to bear arms. Yes, the NRA has ranted about this in order to protect their manufacturer members, but that is NOT what the second amendment says, nor intended. Just because gun advocates repeat it over and over again doesn't make it true. Read it again, and read the legal cases which have further defined and interpreted it. Except in specific, narrow cases, the Amendment has been interpreted exactly as it was written: As part of an organized militia you may have the right to bear arms.
You are wrong, quite obviously. If the supreme court had ruled that you have to be in a organized militia to bear arms, none of us individual citizens would be bearing arms right now. That isn't the case, is it?
No, the supreme court has ruled that individuals do indeed have the right to bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed upon.
Gun fetishists defend the broken system because they realize at a gut level that they are exactly the sort of people who have no business owning firearms.
There is no difference between this moron with a gun
and this moron with a gun
Running into either of these people would be detrimental to my well being. Gun fetishists defend the 2nd amendment as if everyone who has a firearm is either 1) John Wayne or 2) a depraved, criminally-insane gang member. Just because they so desperately want everyone who has a gun fits into one of those two groups doesn't make it so.
And then they'll throw their hands up and say the problem is so large that it's not worth fixing. They are nothing if not predictable.
Are you for real? I hope not.
You know what the most important difference is between those two people? The gangsta is a criminal, that gun he is holding was illegally acquired because he has a criminal record and can't go buy it from a gun store. His profession is to find people like you, take your possessions and maybe kill you just for the fun of it, or to prove he is worthy of joining a gang, or to impress his buddies.
The second guy isn't a criminal. He has no interest in taking your possessions or your life, he just likes firearms.
If you can't see that difference then I don't know what to tell you.
No, the supreme court has ruled that individuals do indeed have the right to bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed upon.
Sorry.
So you support felons owning guns? We cannot infringe on their rights, after all. How about mentally retarded citizens? Guns for them, too? No infringement, after all. The constitution says so. How about if someone walks into a gun store, announces that he or she is about to commit a murder and wants to purchase the best firearm for the job. Should the store owner oblige? Otherwise that would be infringing on the would-be murderer's rights.
Here's a little exercise for you. Take one of your loaded guns to an airport, buy a ticket, and demand that you be allowed to carry your weapon onto the plane. Otherwise your rights are being infringed upon.
People who demand that all guns are allowed all the time in all places in all instances have no place at the gun-control discussion table.
If there's one thing I learned from Iraq is that your forces NEED to have popular support from the locals to move safely through an area, and even then that's not always a guarantee. The "bad guys" can ONLY operate with local support. They will be pushed out if the population is against them.
All Government overthrows and upheavals started with an idea and civil disobedience, and if by an armed population, with support of the people and the civilian non combatants. All you need to verify this is read the history books and watch the current news. The most modern Armies in the world could not stop armed insurrection. All of these have been with small arms and captured arms. ISIS took over half a Country with a bunch of thugs armed with AK47s. The Vietnamese drove us out of Vietnams with small arms and no air force, navy, or armor. The Russians lost Afghanistan to a bunch locals armed with 303 British Enfield's and AK47s. Don't ever think the Government is blind to this and an armed society is not a threat to them if they step out of line. Granted, an small armed group can not face a motorized Military force head on, or deal with Jets and Drones, but they can deal with the people that run these systems, and have to live among the people. No conflict can be won without "Boots on the Ground" and when that happens all things are more equal. Weak spots are exposed and one uses them when found. Also, most Americans would find it hard to kill other Americans that are fighting against Tyranny or an attempt to do away with their Rights.
We have been very close to takeovers and are always on the brink of loosing freedoms, non as close as the Bush years, that spawned the Intelligence monsters that have put all Americans under a microscope. The years where anyone could be abducted at any time in any place, and taken abroad to be tortured for what they may or may not know. It would not have mattered if you where American or a Foreigner, or if you where in London or in a New York suburb. The victims of Katrina saw their guns being confiscated, and Police powers given to Mercenaries from Blackwater, with authorization to use deadly force. Thugs with no police training, no training on how to deal with the public, and no one to answer to that has your best interests in mind. We all know what kind of people these are, and that they got kicked out of Iraq for indiscriminate killings of civilians. These are the people you may face in event of a National Emergency or some sort of Natural Disaster. Your guns will be the first to go, if they know where you live and what you have, just as they did during Katrina. The crooks will still have theirs, you won't.
Don't want guns? Fine, don't have one. Take your chances. You may never need one, and I may never need one, but I would always rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
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