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Old 04-27-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
The parts of the Civil Rights Act that Rand objects to are precisely the parts that outlawed 'whites only' lunch counters. That's WHY his views are so popular among white Southerners.

Rand seems to share the view of lots of libertarians- claiming that the Holy Free Market would have magically ended such discrimination. To my twisted little mind, it's appropriate to ask: well... why DIDN'T such discrimination (visibly) end until the Feds stepped in? Could this be one of many problems that the Holy Free Market doesn't magically solve??

Why were laws (Jim Crow) required to enforce segregation?
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,924 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Why were laws (Jim Crow) required to enforce segregation?
Were they 'required'? Are you seriously suggesting that white southerners were forced (FORCED!) into their racist actions by eeeeebil guburment?

Or were such laws simply voted in because the majority in those states were racist white southerners?

Fact is that private discrimination did not (visibly) end until the Feds PUT a (visible) end to it. The Holy Free Market didn't end it. States rights and local government (which Rand Paul explicitly endorses) served ONLY to perpetuate racial discrimination in the south.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Were they 'required'? Are you seriously suggesting that white southerners were forced (FORCED!) into their racist actions by eeeeebil guburment?

Or were such laws simply voted in because the majority in those states were racist white southerners?
What gave the majority the right to impose their views on individual property owners?
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,924 times
Reputation: 5277
Buy hey Libertarians... don't forget!

I'm gonna need y'all to please spell out what SPECIFIC ACTIONS are prohibited by the Civil Rights Act that you would like to see made legal.

Go ahead... don't be shy. Stand up for your Principles(TM)! Noting to be ashamed of in this big ol' pile of Freedom, right?
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:30 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,912,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
The rebel flag is a symbol used by racists who want (among other things) to legalize racial discrimination and disenfranchise minority voters. So when I saw a young black gal carrying that symbol, I felt bad for her that she'd been led to support the same people who would deny her civil rights.

The Republican Party is run by wealth-worshiping sycophants who want (among other things) to do away with any/all workers' protections and raise taxes on the poorest among us. So when I see a working class or poor person supporting the Republican Party, I feel had for her that she's been led to support people who are directly working to take money AWAY from her and hand it over to billionaires.

I don't quite understand how an "anglo white woman hanging out with black people" is analogous. Care to elaborate?
Symbols and words DO many times change meanings. Like "redneck" used to be a slur; now it means a plain talking person who works with their hands and, that person may actually be a Black dude or lady who self ID's as a redneck.

Another's the "N word": many Black people have taken it back and, despite it really pissing off older Blacks, the younger ones throw it at each other and sometimes at lighter skin "races.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Were they 'required'? Are you seriously suggesting that white southerners were forced (FORCED!) into their racist actions by eeeeebil guburment?

Or were such laws simply voted in because the majority in those states were racist white southerners?

Fact is that private discrimination did not (visibly) end until the Feds PUT a (visible) end to it. The Holy Free Market didn't end it. States rights and local government (which Rand Paul explicitly endorses) served ONLY to perpetuate racial discrimination in the south.

Yes, they were required. Why else do you think they were passed and enforced? The "Holy Free Market" never existed.

Slavery, Jim Crow and the 1964 Civil Rights amendment had one thing in common. The violation of the right of association.

Property rights are civil rights.

The fact is President Rand Paul would make no effort to amend the Civil Rights Act of 1964 but he damn well might restore the USA to a sane foreign policy.

Last edited by whogo; 04-27-2015 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Yes, they were required. Why else do you think they were passed and enforced? The "Holy Free Market" never existed.

Slavery, Jim Crow and the 1964 Civil Rights amendment had one thing in common. The violation of the right of association.

Property rights are civil rights.
Oh my gawd those poor oppressed white Southerners! All this time I've been blaming them for their racism, and it was Big Government(TM) all along!

You guys crack me up. Thanks for the 'history' lesson



So- could you please explain to me what specific actions are currently forbidden by the Civil Rights Act, and that you would like to be made legal?

I mean... in your and Randy's ideal world... would whites-only lunch counters be legal?
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,271,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Nope, it's really only liberals who seem to have an issue with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Huh?

Did you watch OP's video? We have a sweetheart young lady who is being called 'Uncle Tom' for her conservative political views, and you conclude that it is conservatives who "constantly insult, hate and dispense venomous bile." Okaaaay.

And I did not realize that "liberalism and leftism" is considered insulting terminology by the liberal left. You tell us what you wish to be called, and we'll adopt that terminology.

BTW do you understand what fascism is? It is corporatism, the marriage of big collective government and big business. Like for example the Ex-Im bank, which Pres. Obama fought so hard to keep in place when conservatives tried to cancel it.
I was responding to another false post, and frankly, it was the last straw. Extremist conservatives do this quite often in threads, and it is becoming tiresome. "Only liberals do this" is a flat-out lie. Plenty of conservatives do this, as well, and I was pointing that out.

Yes I understand what fascism is--and btw, good example of condescension. Here are some defining characteristics of fascism and it sure sounds a lot closer to extremist conservatism than liberalism to me:

-- Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

-- Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

-- Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

-- Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

-- Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

-- Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

-- Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

-- Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

-- Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

-- Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

-- Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

As far as terminology--leftists, lefties, commies, statists, etc. Extremist conservatives are the only people who use these terms. A good friend from Boston was visiting me in a super-conservative town and saw a letter to the editor making reference to "lefties." He cracked up had never heard of it--"what's a leftie?" That term is simply not part of the lexicon of most of America. You see, it is basically right wing extremist code for a radical. Guess what--liberal or Democrat does not equal radical.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259
I will not respond in the same disrespectful tone as I am being addressed. I remember an era where political debates could be civil.

I believe in a negative rights philosophy. Private property owners should have the right to restrict access to their property to anyone they wish. It should not matter if that property is a home or business. Governments should not have the power to violate the right of association of property owners by either restricting who they can serve or forcing them to serve those they wish not to.

Big government was responsible for slavery.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,924 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I will not respond in the same disrespectful tone as I am being addressed. I remember an era where political debates could be civil.

I believe in a negative rights philosophy. Private property owners should have the right to restrict access to their property to anyone they wish. It should not matter if that property is a home or business. Governments should not have the power to violate the right of association of property owners by either restricting who they can serve or forcing them to serve those they wish not to.
So what you're saying is that you believe whites-only lunch counters should once again be legal- just like they were in the segregated South.

Why beat around the bush so much? Why not stand proudly for your Principles of Freedom(TM)?

Is there something here you're less than proud of?
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