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Old 05-19-2015, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
A lot of GI Bill veterans would argue otherwise.
That was not "free" money. That GI Bill money was earned via years of enlisted service.
I did my time to EARN that GI Bill and go to college. That was one big reason why I signed up for 8 years.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,827 posts, read 29,948,125 times
Reputation: 14429
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
In California Community College used to be free, why did it work so well then, but it's not the answer now?
IDK. The ridiculously cheap per-unit cost for me in CA CC's between 2001-2006 didn't get me anywhere.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:34 PM
 
28,677 posts, read 18,801,179 times
Reputation: 30992
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That was not "free" money. That GI Bill money was earned via years of enlisted service.
I did my time to EARN that GI Bill and go to college. That was one big reason why I signed up for 8 years.
So what had been the case for veterans prior to 1944? They didn't "earn" it?

No, sorry, the Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944 had a very prosaic purpose of enabling WWII veterans to move off the farms and into the burgeoning industrial sector of the cities. Free education and low-cost home loans did the trick to feed the factories and the industrialists.

And you thought it was the largess of a grateful nation.
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:11 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,439,336 times
Reputation: 4710
Great timing.

Last Sunday's San Diego Union Tribune featured an instructive article on local "higher education."

1. "Nude Class Project Proceeds at UCSD"

...a group of UC San Diego art students performed in the nude before their also-nude professor last week.

The performances in Professor Ricardo Dominguez's visual arts class, known in the UCSD catalog as VIS 104A, have gone on for 11 years without much notice and with no complaints.

Things dramatically changed, however, when the mother of one of his students told a television news reporter that Dominguez had surprised his class with a mandatory assignment to perform in the nude or fail. The story quickly went viral.

"My concern was for the students," Dominguez said about the sudden international attention. "I thought it [the publicity] was undue pressure on students who are just trying to focus on their work."

...The notion that the professor also was nude during the performances was downright creepy to many.

..television commentator Nancy Grace tackled the topic while raising the question, "Why? Why do I have to see his hairy body naked?"

...The nude performance is one of several "gestures" -- a term for performance pieces that are four to ten minutes long.

...Other performances involve students describing their lives without using words, using trash found on campus to create a ritual, and recreating mundane administrative duties.

"I hope in the end that through these gestures, the artists will locate in one of them a sort of radical rethinking of what their aesthetic research and logic had been and what it might be afterward," Dominguez said, explaining how the performances are intended to energize the students' creativity

...But why does Dominguez also get nude in class?

Because, he said, his students ask him to.

"I ask them at the beginning, "'Would you feel more comfortable with me sitting clothed, watching, or would it be more comfortable for you for me to also risk being nude with you?'"

...Sixteen students did nude performances in class last week. Most did theirs before the entire class, but one said she was uncomfortable being nude before men, so Dominguez and the male students stepped out of the room for her gesture...

BTW, the article indicates that you can repeat the class for credit, and many students had.

Yeah, Bernie, as a taxpayer I'm happy to pay for this -- not!

Last edited by dechatelet; 05-20-2015 at 12:31 AM..
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:07 AM
 
2,068 posts, read 999,874 times
Reputation: 3641
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's hilarious. When I went to Community College it was free except for books and a parking permit, I certainly got plenty out of it, it changed my life. After that I worked full time went to a state college at night which had very low fees, I got my BS from there and went on to do very well. That was only possible because of the education I received.
My statement is made in the general sense. "Free stuff" is generally not valued, i.e. worthless. A high school diploma is universally available, for "free", throughout the country. How valuable is it?
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:52 AM
 
28,677 posts, read 18,801,179 times
Reputation: 30992
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacInTx View Post
My statement is made in the general sense. "Free stuff" is generally not valued, i.e. worthless. A high school diploma is universally available, for "free", throughout the country. How valuable is it?
It was very valuable until relatively recently, and it had been free for generations before that.

It only became "worthless" because Big Education decided that a bachelor's degree was a necessity for everyone to earn a living and began teaching only for college.

That led to a high school curriculum that is deliberately not useful in itself. Back in the 90s, the governor of Hawaii compared the state's high school curriculum with the industry that Hawaii actually had and declared "Our high schools are a waste of time."

The reason a high school diploma has no value today is because it was deliberately devalued--not because it is "free." Considering that it still takes some effort to gain it, it's not "free." It just doesn't cost cash out of the pocket.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,749,540 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
While true, it is a distinction without a difference. The exploitation of excessive financial power fostering skyrocketing economic injustice in society has been and continues to be a grievous offense committed by the right wing on behalf of the rich and large corporate interests.
I assume you are talking about Obama protecting his rich Buddies and Obama giving our tax dollars to his rich corporate buddies.

Quote:
While right wingers continue to dodge moral repudiation of the corruption they advocate, that doesn't ameliorate the wrong they commit by supporting such indefensible egoistic avarice.
It is immoral to take money from a plumber or housekeeper and give it to somebody else and yet left wingers are proud of their immorality.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,749,540 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Since he is not likely to read your link, I'll quote some of it;

We cross-checked the Open Secrets list of the top 100 individuals donating to outside spending groups in the current election against the Forbes list of the world’s billionaires and found that, as of June 19, there were 22 individuals on the Open Secrets list who were billionaires. Of those 22 billionaires, 13 -- or more than half -- gave predominantly to liberal groups or groups affiliated with the Democratic Party. The other nine gave predominantly to conservative groups. (A list of billionaires and how much they donated can be found here.)

Among the liberal-leaning donors are former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and business magnate George Soros. On the conservative side are S. Daniel Abraham, who founded SlimFast, and Vincent McMahon, who owns World Wrestling Entertainment.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,749,540 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That was not "free" money. That GI Bill money was earned via years of enlisted service.
I did my time to EARN that GI Bill and go to college. That was one big reason why I signed up for 8 years.
That is true. It's just like "free" parking or "free" health care and other benefits that some employers provide their employees. It's part of the compensation package.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,749,540 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacInTx View Post
A high school diploma is universally available, for "free", throughout the country. How valuable is it?
It is very valuable. Just ask people who don't have one.
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