Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Since the Charleston shooting I’ve found myself being pushed more and more to the right. It’s odd for me because I’ve always been a moderate (even liberal on some issues). But I’m a 57 year old Southern Woman who is proud of my heritage. Because of that I’ve been labeled a racist, a traitor and a Nazi (by implication) by folks on the internet who don’t anything about me but what I’ve just mentioned. And suddenly I see it – the hatred of many (not going to generalize and say “all”) on the left for anything they disagree with and/or don’t understand. People who lash out and name call based on a knee-jerk reactions and little real knowledge either of the people they are attacking or the history they seem to think they are experts on. Indeed, these people have managed to turn not only today’s Southerners, but all, into one-dimensional racist buffoons. History is a lot more complicated than that because it’s made by real people – who are complicated.
I have a degree in history and I’ve studied US history from Colonial times through Vietnam. The history of slavery goes back hundreds of years. The sectional differences of the US states began before the ink was dry on the Constitution. It can’t be boiled down to a soundbite. And calling people names only demonstrates a lack of any but the most superficial knowledge of the history of the US, but also a rabid refusal to do more than cast stones from some kind of self righteous Neverland. From the flag, to the monuments, to the Dukes of Hazzard – it’s just too much. And it has caused more division than the shooting that started this ever could have. People came together after that in support and shock. Then it dwindled into attacks on heritage and charges of racism – toward people who not only didn’t support Roof, but were outraged at his actions. It has succeeded not only in division, but in the alienation of people like myself who find they have had all the insults and misjudgment they can take.
What exactly about your heritage are your proud of?
When you see it, what do you think it represents?
I am a moderate. I am a black woman who has also studied hundreds of years of US history and I will start out by saying that IMO, the confederate flag has nothing whatsoever to do with the killing of the the 9 AME congregation members in Charleston. It was an act of a racist, deranged, hate filled man.
I personally don't even know how the conversation steered toward this flag as IMO it is not relevant to that tragic event.
But on the flag itself, I will state that I personally don't understand why southern whites cling to this flag. Since you are a person well studied in history, I would think that you would acknowledge that the "stars and bars" was not THE flag of the confederacy, it was one of many flags used by the CSA. Also, that the "cause" that the Confederates were fighting for was for states rights concerning slavery. No matter how people like to spin it, slavery was the primary reason for the war.
After the war, I would think you would acknowledge that the attitudes concerning the inferiority of black, newly freed Americans was still very prevalent in the south. That shock and outrage were common amongst whites in the south based upon the rise of black people to political power especially who they felt were incompetent based on both race and education/background. The KKK and other, similar organizations began as an effort to decrease the influence of formerly enslaved persons and to put whites back into their place as the ruling class in the south and exert their superiority over black Americans.
The KKK and other groups united under the stars and bars and other confederate symbols. Their activities and goals of once again dominating blacks was achieved at the end of Reconstruction and during the late 19th century through the mid 20th century they kept blacks in "their place" through terrorism and legalized discrimination enacted via state and local legislative bodies.
During the 1950s as a response to the Civil Rights activities and passage of Brown v. Board of Education, white southerners chose to adopt the stars and bars to once again exert the idea that they were superior over blacks. That no authority could force them to not believe they were superior or make them send their children to school with black children or let black people get out of "their place" as inferior beings in southern society.
Throughout the history of this flag in this country it has stood for superiority of the white southerner over blacks and over northern sympathizers with blacks. It has been used by many domestic terrorist a a source of "pride."
Due to that and due to you being knowledgeable as you stated about history, I don't see how this flag could be a symbol of anything that could be called "pride." Unless you are proud of being divisive and proud that you are superior over other Americans.
I always am curious as to the source of the "pride" and "heritage" regarding this flag. But again, it has nothing to do with the Charleston shooting IMO. I can understand you are proud that your ancestor was brave. I can understand you are proud that your ancestor chose to fight for what they believed in, but on the whole, what they believed was that they were a superior "race." And unless you also believe in that, I don't see how you can claim that this flag represents something to be proud of.
A better question is, are you going to quit crying about it.
I've not once called for the flag to be taken down- I really don't care.
But I HAVE been honest about what the flag represents (proud ignorance and racism). And I think it's pretty funny how Republicans are all up in arms about losing their racist flag.
Hey, so what do you think about the gal who took down that flag? Kinda cute for a black gal, huh?
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,145,129 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head
I've not once called for the flag to be taken down- I really don't care.
But I HAVE been honest about what the flag represents (proud ignorance and racism). And I think it's pretty funny how Republicans are all up in arms about losing their racist flag.
Hey, so what do you think about the gal who took down that flag? Kinda cute for a black gal, huh?
All republicans are racist? All southerner's are republicans? There are no Northern racists?
9 people being killed isnt as bad as losing the dukes of hazard?
Wow, this place got issues.
Isn't that the truth! And where WAS that outcry demanding that Dukes of Hazard be removed? Oh, that's right. There was NONE. A decision made by the corporate overlord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett
Since the Charleston shooting I’ve found myself being pushed more and more to the right. It’s odd for me because I’ve always been a moderate (even liberal on some issues). But I’m a 57 year old Southern Woman who is proud of my heritage. Because of that I’ve been labeled a racist, a traitor and a Nazi (by implication) by folks on the internet who don’t anything about me but what I’ve just mentioned. And suddenly I see it – the hatred of many (not going to generalize and say “all”) on the left for anything they disagree with and/or don’t understand. People who lash out and name call based on a knee-jerk reactions and little real knowledge either of the people they are attacking or the history they seem to think they are experts on. Indeed, these people have managed to turn not only today’s Southerners, but all, into one-dimensional racist buffoons. History is a lot more complicated than that because it’s made by real people – who are complicated.
I have a degree in history and I’ve studied US history from Colonial times through Vietnam. The history of slavery goes back hundreds of years. The sectional differences of the US states began before the ink was dry on the Constitution. It can’t be boiled down to a soundbite. And calling people names only demonstrates a lack of any but the most superficial knowledge of the history of the US, but also a rabid refusal to do more than cast stones from some kind of self righteous Neverland. From the flag, to the monuments, to the Dukes of Hazzard – it’s just too much. And it has caused more division than the shooting that started this ever could have. People came together after that in support and shock. Then it dwindled into attacks on heritage and charges of racism – toward people who not only didn’t support Roof, but were outraged at his actions. It has succeeded not only in division, but in the alienation of people like myself who find they have had all the insults and misjudgment they can take.
What pushed you over, do you think? Was it all those Republican Governors calling for removal of the Confederate flag? And that HUGE outcry demanding Dukes of Hazzard be removed. Oh, wait. That's right - there was none.
I grew up in the South. Why IS it that they are so attached to the confederate flag? Why aren't they as passionate about the regular old American Flag? Why must they continually wallow in their separateness from the rest of the US?
Bottom line - you can call it state's rights or whatever you want. The South wanted to keep their slaves.
That old saying . . that they are still fighting the civil war in the South . . seems like it's truer than ever.
What exactly about your heritage are your proud of?
When you see it, what do you think it represents?
I am a moderate. I am a black woman who has also studied hundreds of years of US history and I will start out by saying that IMO, the confederate flag has nothing whatsoever to do with the killing of the the 9 AME congregation members in Charleston. It was an act of a racist, deranged, hate filled man.
I personally don't even know how the conversation steered toward this flag as IMO it is not relevant to that tragic event.
But on the flag itself, I will state that I personally don't understand why southern whites cling to this flag. Since you are a person well studied in history, I would think that you would acknowledge that the "stars and bars" was not THE flag of the confederacy, it was one of many flags used by the CSA. Also, that the "cause" that the Confederates were fighting for was for states rights concerning slavery. No matter how people like to spin it, slavery was the primary reason for the war.
After the war, I would think you would acknowledge that the attitudes concerning the inferiority of black, newly freed Americans was still very prevalent in the south. That shock and outrage were common amongst whites in the south based upon the rise of black people to political power especially who they felt were incompetent based on both race and education/background. The KKK and other, similar organizations began as an effort to decrease the influence of formerly enslaved persons and to put whites back into their place as the ruling class in the south and exert their superiority over black Americans.
The KKK and other groups united under the stars and bars and other confederate symbols. Their activities and goals of once again dominating blacks was achieved at the end of Reconstruction and during the late 19th century through the mid 20th century they kept blacks in "their place" through terrorism and legalized discrimination enacted via state and local legislative bodies.
During the 1950s as a response to the Civil Rights activities and passage of Brown v. Board of Education, white southerners chose to adopt the stars and bars to once again exert the idea that they were superior over blacks. That no authority could force them to not believe they were superior or make them send their children to school with black children or let black people get out of "their place" as inferior beings in southern society.
Throughout the history of this flag in this country it has stood for superiority of the white southerner over blacks and over northern sympathizers with blacks. It has been used by many domestic terrorist a a source of "pride."
Due to that and due to you being knowledgeable as you stated about history, I don't see how this flag could be a symbol of anything that could be called "pride." Unless you are proud of being divisive and proud that you are superior over other Americans.
I always am curious as to the source of the "pride" and "heritage" regarding this flag. But again, it has nothing to do with the Charleston shooting IMO. I can understand you are proud that your ancestor was brave. I can understand you are proud that your ancestor chose to fight for what they believed in, but on the whole, what they believed was that they were a superior "race." And unless you also believe in that, I don't see how you can claim that this flag represents something to be proud of.
It's might be helpful to you if you actually knew what the "stars and bars" flag is. This is one of the problems I have with this entire "phony flag kerfuffle" - people don't even know what they are talking about or what any of it means. I've already posted the SNOPES link that explains it all, but nobody cares -- it's all Media Hype, Myths and phony outrage for a Political Agenda of some sort.
But I HAVE been honest about what the flag represents (proud ignorance and racism). And I think it's pretty funny how Republicans are all up in arms about losing their racist flag.
It's not Republicans up in arms over the flag or their flag. It's not even about the flag. And the people who want to remove the flag represent ethnocentrism/racism and communism.
Quote:
Hey, so what do you think about the gal who took down that flag? Kinda cute for a black gal, huh?
And all your ancestors were perfect angels who did no wrong?
Geez!
For real? This is your actual response? How about stopping the cycle with yourself instead of leaving be, shrugging your shoulders & saying "oh well, other people weren't perfect either". What a perfectly absurd way of thinking.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
