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Yes, but to take your logic even further, eggs and semen are potential children, too. And yet mother nature flushes away eggs every month from women, and men masturbate and throw away their semen all the time. At some point, the building blocks for human beings are just building blocks, they aren't human beings yet. We recognize that what makes us human is a human essence, a self-awareness, a sentience. If that sentience isn't present, for instance a car accident victim whose brain has died, we recognize that the person that was once housed in that body is gone. In fetuses without sentience, no one has ever moved in.
But sentience isn't what we use to define humanity.
When an adult gets in an accident and loses sentience, we don't let go of them just because they aren't "there" at the moment. We may let go of them because there is no hope of sentience ever coming back.
But if this accident victim was expected to be sentient in a few months, would we pull the plug?
Again, you are using exceptions to discredit those who have strong feelings about abortion. Many of us would never want to see someone die because of child birth, but also we know, the chances of a mothers life be in danger is so rare it probably has no statistics, Even most, obviously not you, who are pro choice do not believe in late term abortion. If the % is so low, like you claim why do you really care?
I will say, obviously there is a huge split on how we view abortion. I, for one, though I consider myself pro life, do see exceptions and no, I do not want to see Roe versus Wade overturned. I am just sorry it was ever the law. You can go ahead and claim these are not babies, even when they have reached a stage where they can breath and exist on their own, that is the law and your choice, but for God's sake, do understand, there are many alternatives to abortion.
No, I am pointing out who exactly the anti-choice crowd wants to take that choice away from.
Yes, but to take your logic even further, eggs and semen are potential children, too. And yet mother nature flushes away eggs every month from women, and men masturbate and throw away their semen all the time. At some point, the building blocks for human beings are just building blocks, they aren't human beings yet. We recognize that what makes us human is a human essence, a self-awareness, a sentience. If that sentience isn't present, for instance a car accident victim whose brain has died, we recognize that the person that was once housed in that body is gone. In fetuses without sentience, no one has ever moved in.
no.... that is not my logic. LOL.
not even close. I mean you aren't even in the same continent of my logic.
Ive posted it. You have read and commented on my logic.
INNOCENCE is the key. There is no innocence in an unfertile egg. there is no innocence in a sperm.
Come on at least be intellectually honest here.
We can discuss this sentience argument without that nonsense.
I agree that a person who is brain dead is in fact dead, regardless of our scientific ability to keep the body alive.
I am very happy you bring this up.
IF you take a needle and stick the person laying on the hospital bed with no brain function, they wont move. they wont act as if they have been hurt at all
You tend to avoid real honest discussion, and instead create lies and attack those instead.
Just because you are unable to accept what I am saying does not mean I am lying.....though you trying to discredit others by calling them liars is just childish....so you are the one trying to avoid having a real honest discussion because you cannot see beyond your own emotions on this topic.
And yet here we have threads about how abortions should be banned, especially after 20 weeks when the facts show that women who are having abortions at that point aren't doing it because they just don't want to give birth to a baby.
This is no lie, this is the fact that the "pro-life" anti-choice crowd keeps crowing.
sorry urbanlife but you are wrong.
THIS thread is clear on the point. we are not talking about taking access away from a woman who will be harmed by continuing a pregnancy. NOT AT ALL.
don't make false accusations.
there are a million abortions a year in the US. The VAST majority of these have nothing at all to do with rape, incest of the life of the mother. They are by and large late term birth control.
THIS thread is clear on the point. we are not talking about taking access away from a woman who will be harmed by continuing a pregnancy. NOT AT ALL.
don't make false accusations.
there are a million abortions a year in the US. The VAST majority of these have nothing at all to do with rape, incest of the life of the mother. They are by and large late term birth control.
That is wrong.
I'm sorry, what? Late term birth control? Are you saying that the majority of abortions are late term?
Just because you are unable to accept what I am saying does not mean I am lying.....though you trying to discredit others by calling them liars is just childish....so you are the one trying to avoid having a real honest discussion because you cannot see beyond your own emotions on this topic.
im not going to call you a liar. that wouldn't be nice.
But ive been in this thread from the beginning and what you said in suggesting that we are looking to take safty away from women in trouble is in fact the opposite of what this thread is about.
either you have not read the thread and are just making your generalizations based on what you perceive to be reality, or you have read the thread and you are doing your best to play at the margins.
the number of abortions that are related to serious medical issues are minimal almost statistically irrelevant. I am not going to have a statistically irrelevant argument.
now lets get back to the 980,000 abortions per year that are NOT related to a medical need.
I do not think this is black or white. It is not like all of a sudden one has sentience. It is a progression and if you think it has been pinpointed where it begins think again.
Again, rationalizing away the brutality of abortion (ie the fetus feels nothing) is not a good way to back the free choice position.
Sentience is achieved by stepping stones, and we know that a certain level of brain development has to be there. We can't pinpoint where it begins, but we can say positively that it hasn't happened at 12 weeks. And discussing the FACTS isn't rationalization. Your introduction of the word "brutality" is about arousing people's emotions. In fact, all the anthropomorphization of fetuses is purely based on emotion, not on science.
And my position is that the WOMAN, and only the WOMAN, is fully cognizant of all the risks and consequences that she faces because of an unplanned pregnancy. I don't know everything about her. You don't know everything about her. Her doctor doesn't know everything about her. Her own mother doesn't know everything about her. She ALONE can consider everything that the situation entails. No one else walks in her shoes. She is entitled to consider her own future, and to navigate it the best she can. The rest of us, in our ignorance of the entirety of her situation, need to respect her. And frankly, every pro-life argument doesn't respect women. The argument is that women shouldn't have the right to make choices that profoundly affect women, because women considering their choices are immoral, irresponsible or stupid. That is the basis of every argument against choice. Women with unplanned pregnancies are immoral, irresponsible or stupid. Every argument is based on one or more of these assertions.
I reject that. Utterly and completely. I fully support that women deserve respect. That women are moral, responsible and intelligent. That women, when faced with a terrible decision, should be allowed privacy when making such a decision. Because that's what you do when you respect someone.
Sentience is achieved by stepping stones, and we know that a certain level of brain development has to be there. We can't pinpoint where it begins, but we can say positively that it hasn't happened at 12 weeks. And discussing the FACTS isn't rationalization. Your introduction of the word "brutality" is about arousing people's emotions. In fact, all the anthropomorphization of fetuses is purely based on emotion, not on science.
And my position is that the WOMAN, and only the WOMAN, is fully cognizant of all the risks and consequences that she faces because of an unplanned pregnancy. I don't know everything about her. You don't know everything about her. Her doctor doesn't know everything about her. Her own mother doesn't know everything about her. She ALONE can consider everything that the situation entails. No one else walks in her shoes. She is entitled to consider her own future, and to navigate it the best she can. The rest of us, in our ignorance of the entirety of her situation, need to respect her. And frankly, every pro-life argument doesn't respect women. The argument is that women shouldn't have the right to make choices that profoundly affect women, because women considering their choices are immoral, irresponsible or stupid. That is the basis of every argument against choice. Women with unplanned pregnancies are immoral, irresponsible or stupid. Every argument is based on one or more of these assertions.
I reject that. Utterly and completely. I fully support that women deserve respect. That women are moral, responsible and intelligent. That women, when faced with a terrible decision, should be allowed privacy when making such a decision. Because that's what you do when you respect someone.
You resort to too many generalizations to constrauct an acceptable argument.
Quote:
every pro-life argument doesn't respect women.
wrong not every
Quote:
because women considering their choices are immoral, irresponsible or stupid. That is the basis of every argument against choice
wrong not every
Quote:
That women are moral, responsible and intelligent.
not all women and not all men. Wrong again
Poor debating skills. Strawmen and absolutes.
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