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Regarding the matter of religion, I suggest we keep an eye open for Christian Identity themes and influence. They are part and parcel of the rural US subculture of the Sovereign Citizen, Posse Comitatus, (some) militias, and anti-federalist movements that have cropped up periodically.
So far, the only hard facts regarding religious motivation for the Malheur Malcontents has been the scriptural quotes from known Mormon members.
But Christian Identity themes crop up in their theo-political 'sovereign' views. The below is a biased source, and I do not endorse the bias. But it refers to the ideological themes of the YeeHawdists and how they seem to have been largely lifted from Christian Identity sources:
Our CD correspondent Cryptic referred to Timothy McVeigh. I have studied him deeply, as I personally experienced his handiwork. That meth-head SoB was raised as a nominal Episcopalian, eschewed Christianity, and worshiped no Divinity. His entire 'theology', however, was lifted lock, stock, and barrel from Christian Identity. Only he left the theology out of it, focusing only on the antigovernment and racist ideology.
No discussion of any sovereign citizen, theo-"patriot", or antifederalist, militia, racist, or nominally rural politico-cultural movement of the US West, Midwest, or South within the past few decades is complete without comparing its views and goals against the template of Christian Identity.
We have a solid match here with the Malheur malcontents. Except a lot of them are Mormon. Probably soon to be disfellowshipped Mormon. But search deeply enough, and Christian Identity influence will come to light. I guarantee it. CI is 'the' heart and lungs, if not the brain, of all these various movements -- and very, very few Americans have even heard of them: A long-extant Christian terrorist sect with much, much blood on their hands.
I'll bet that the odds are pretty high that some of these occupiers are drawing some form of "govt assistance". They often refer to govt employees as "jack-booted thugs", and yet these guys typically dress up in black army boots, are heavily armed, and often have neo-Nazi opinions about a number of subjects. The irony is incredible..
If by "pretty high" you mean 100%, then you're correct:
As discussed in earlier posts: Severly discounted grazing for their cattle, SBA loans, to name a few. 3 others listed in the link including govt employees killing predators of their cattle.
We have a different threshold for what is called being terrorized. I doubt if people in the area feel any terror.
Anger, annoyance, etc. probably.
Anger and annoyance don't cause schools to shut down. If you read the link I provided it had a quote from the superintendent stating that the safety of students and staff were the district's top priority. Quit making these people out to be something they're not.
People fail to realize that these guys are armed and dangerous. Many of them went up there willing to kill and die for what they believe in. They may leave disenfranchised once this experiment fails, but as long as they have their weapons, they are in fact dangerous.
Like many have said in this thread, if these knuckleheads were black kids, they'd be called thugs. If they were muslims, they'd be called terrorists. Since they're middle aged and white, they're called a milita.
We have a different threshold for what is called being terrorized. I doubt if people in the area feel any terror. Anger, annoyance, etc. probably.
It is definitely terrorism:
FBI definition of Terrorism
Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:
Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).
No one 'assumed control' of any land - these have always been federal lands. Tourism is one the major industries in UT, WY, MT and many other Western states. Why do you think people are going to these states? I'll give you a hint, it is not the cuisine or the night life.
Exactly. The only states that didn't have public lands owned by the federal government were those that were states (or parts of states) during the Revolution. The federal government owns all lands in the territories until they are disposed of. That predates the US Constitution as the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 provided for the organization of territories and the sale of public lands. In 1862, the Homestead Act provided free land in the territories to individuals willing to settle in the West and develop bare land.
It's no accident that most of the federal lands today are located in the Rocky Mountains and the Great Basin; nobody wanted to buy it and it wasn't even attractive for free to homesteaders because of the dry and/or cold climate, steep slopes, rocky soil, etc. The better farming/ranching lands further east were purchased or homesteaded mostly before WW I.
Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:
Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).
Occupying a federal building in the middle of nowhere is and act dangerous to human life? Better notify BLM and Holder to arrest himself.
Occupying a federal building in the middle of nowhere is and act dangerous to human life? Better notify BLM and Holder to arrest himself.
After the dialogue we had in the Minnesota BLM shooting thread, it's fascinating watching you slip discs bending over backwards to downplay the actions of these, uh, "patriots".
After the dialogue we had in the Minnesota BLM shooting thread, it's fascinating watching you slip discs bending over backwards to downplay these, uh, "patriots".
I dont support their occupation of a federal building. But until they start burning down neighborhoods attacking people and otherwise spreading fear this is a ridiculous premise.
They are in the middle of nowhere in a federal building... terrorism? lol
Please try offering a cogent argument relative to the topic, invoking Eric Holder really doesn't add to the discussion.
Eric Holder participated in an armed occupation of a federal rotc office. By your logic that makes him a former terrorist.
Of course we both know that is a ridiculous premise.
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