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When the myth of cheap, abundant programming abroad is shattered, there is a lot more reason for the next generation of talent to take on and excel at a craft that creates real value.
of course this is not going to happen.
Quality drops because most development done is based mainly on Time To Market. So sales team usually tend to over promise. Sales teams are never really held accountable, at least to the degree development teams are. But sales teams are a protected class in most companies anyway. They pretty much top of the food chain in terms of how people prioritize things. I can understand why, but unfortunately overly aggressive sales teams coupled with upper management reluctance to effectively build engineereing teams is a classic battle.
From the software engineering end, there has been strives to meet market demands by making software easier to maintain and deploy. But it creates steep steep levels of complexity in the long run. And some practices are ignored by Engineering upper management because their main goal is to deliver to Product teams. So they're willing to somewhat ignore good principles to respond to sales pressure.
In either case, the IT market is a field that is still fighting for legitimatcy in the eyes of upper management. Upper Management and executive leadership really don't like technology at all. Many companies just realize they need it, but they don't understand it, and they don't know why it's not cheap.
It's a battle of culture inside most orgs. I'm blessed to be with a pretty good company now that seems to have a sense of balance. This isn't usually the case.
well, both my exes are software developers / engineers.
According to them, the employer has someone they want to hire and bring in on a H1B visa, so they taylor the job description to people they want to hire and import, who will work for less money. But both said, they have yet to see a project done overseas at that sort of hourly rate that has actually gone well.
I think outsourcing anything complex doesn't work. That was my experience as a more technical consultant. But I was responding to your (I think) earlier post about sales and marketing being at the top of the food chain.
I have found the opposite in saas. Product people are at the top of the food chain. Marketing is almost universally distrusted.
And I heard from a friend that one very popular Silicon Valley company only gives free lunch to engineers.
At the company I work for marketing is still a bit a middle child, but we are working our way into more favored status.
Quality drops because most development done is based mainly on Time To Market. So sales team usually tend to over promise. Sales teams are never really held accountable, at least to the degree development teams are. But sales teams are a protected class in most companies anyway. They pretty much top of the food chain in terms of how people prioritize things. I can understand why, but unfortunately overly aggressive sales teams coupled with upper management reluctance to effectively build engineereing teams is a classic battle.
From the software engineering end, there has been strives to meet market demands by making software easier to maintain and deploy. But it creates steep steep levels of complexity in the long run. And some practices are ignored by Engineering upper management because their main goal is to deliver to Product teams. So they're willing to somewhat ignore good principles to respond to sales pressure.
In either case, the IT market is a field that is still fighting for legitimatcy in the eyes of upper management. Upper Management and executive leadership really don't like technology at all. Many companies just realize they need it, but they don't understand it, and they don't know why it's not cheap.
It's a battle of culture inside most orgs. I'm blessed to be with a pretty good company now that seems to have a sense of balance. This isn't usually the case.
I see. well, I don't know how tech industry works, but I have heard too many complaints from both exes, that is why I remember what i've been told.
The way I see it, well, I.T. jobs are already competitive and with the H1B players in the mix, it gets even more competitive. God help those over 40 who are still seeking jobs in the Tech field right now. It’s better for them to start their own companies.
well, both my exes are software developers / engineers.
According to them, the employer has someone they want to hire and bring in on a H1B visa, so they taylor the job description to people they want to hire and import, who will work for less money. But both said, they have yet to see a project done overseas at that sort of hourly rate that has actually gone well.
The issue with offshore teams is that they don't SEE the business. They don't understand the business domain. And they don't see stake holders. Onshore teams do. The main issue is how upper management on offshore teams measure "success". They usually try to show volume, so they typically toss up all sort of abstract charts and graphs that really mean nothing to upper management. As long as they can show that offshore generating some sort of volume, upper management believe that is an indication of some sort of productivity.
Again I worked with a manager who had to justify offshore teams to a client. And upper management in the offshore teams almost always ask him to show volume. So what did he do? Well he have to artificially show that some sort of volume was being done. This was good enough for the upper management in the offshore group.
But there is no measurment of quality. Yet the offshore teams have almost every quality model cert in the book. What upper management in large companies don't understand is how do you show best practice? This is the bottomline in sustainable high quality and robust software.
I see. well, I don't know how tech industry works, but I have heard too many complaints from both exes, that is why I remember what i've been told.
The way I see it, well, I.T. jobs are already competitive and with the H1B players in the mix, it gets even more competitive. God help those over 40 who are still seeking jobs in the Tech field right now. It’s better for them to start their own companies.
There are many types of technical jobs at a tech company - and most tech companies now are software companies. I haven't been in a big hardware company so it could work a bit different.
IT is the bottom of the food chain.
The top technical job is product design. These are software engineers that design / build / create the product. There is a hierarchy in that team between front end and backend development. It can switch depending on who the company has as a target customer. In consumer facing companies, front end/user experience (UX) is the top. In non-consumer backend wins as there is a bunch of complicated technical challenges that have been solved and other engineers appreciate the complexity.
Then you have engineering. These people focus on the infrastructure of delivering the product. Sometimes the backend people will role up here. But it depends on the product type.
The simplest explanation is front end us what you see and interact with. Backend is the systems that make it work. And engineering creates the infrastructure to scale and support: Database, software stacks, hardware stacks, networking stacks, hosting and all sorts of stuff.
Then you have pre sales engineers. These people know how to use the product, set it up and talk to the technical user about how it works. They support the sales team. This is the best paying tech job as you get a cut of the sales commission. It is customer facing.
Then you have customer success / support. This can be a technical or non-technical role depending on the company.
The last tech job is implementation or professional services or onboarding. These people help customers use and setup the product.
Bigger places also have business intelligence or data science teams. These are database people with varying levels of technical expertise.
Each of these jabs has a very very different experience in the company. If you want prestige and perks, IT is the worst technical job to have at a current tech company. It is also very very different than being a software engineer.
It is not the h1b workers that most have problem with,
it’s the employers who keep lying / distorting and omitting the facts to the government, and our politicians who are abusing the H1B visa system.
Maybe this is the "diversity" tech industry really don't need.
It's not an easy problem to solve. But I think it starts with our education system. For the most part comapnies feel justified because they feel that not enough Americans are taking all of these tech jobs. And they would be right actually. When you work in tech, you're not very likely to work with a lot of other Americans, unless you're working in a small startup environment. The reality is that nearly 80-90% of your team mates will be foreign born. In my last job I was on a team of 25. Out of that number, only 3 of us were actually born in the USA. 2 were born in other countries but came to America at an early age. The rest were foreign born and were all in the USA on some sort of visa sponsorship. And 1 was an actual USA citizen from India who came to America as an adult.
This is not uncommon in most tech fields or departments. So we have to ask ourselves, why aren't Americans showing interest in tech. Or maybe they do, but it's much harder for them to compete with offshore talent. People like me with a lot of experience are USUALLY ok. And just for the record, I'm a black male. But someone entering the field from the USA typically is going to have a rough time without any real connections or nepotism.
So I think the core remains our education system. We don't really encourage children to go into STEM. As evidence in the shoddy way our public schools teach most hard sciences, which is more about memory than analytical thinking.
It's the same way in India and China. The actual difference is that their culture encourages them to enter tech to escape poverty. So many do this in hopes of changing their fortunes.
It's a huge problem all the way around, and it's not fair to H1B holders or American tech workers.
well, I have to say that I admire software engineers. As a fine artist I have to say that software engineers show me a different side of creativity. The job is simply fascinating.
I remember one ex told me that IT people are not just a cog that can be replaced easily and they are each unique. I know he got into tech because of his own passion. But he said IT is no longer fun, it is now all about do more with less. Although I don't know how tech industry works, as an artist I think I get what he is saying.
There are many types of technical jobs at a tech company - and most tech companies now are software companies. I haven't been in a big hardware company so it could work a bit different.
IT is the bottom of the food chain.
The top technical job is product design. These are software engineers that design / build / create the product. There is a hierarchy in that team between front end and backend development. It can switch depending on who the company has as a target customer. In consumer facing companies, front end/user experience (UX) is the top. In non-consumer backend wins as there is a bunch of complicated technical challenges that have been solved and other engineers appreciate the complexity.
Then you have engineering. These people focus on the infrastructure of delivering the product. Sometimes the backend people will role up here. But it depends on the product type.
The simplest explanation is front end us what you see and interact with. Backend is the systems that make it work. And engineering creates the infrastructure to scale and support: Database, software stacks, hardware stacks, networking stacks, hosting and all sorts of stuff.
Then you have pre sales engineers. These people know how to use the product, set it up and talk to the technical user about how it works. They support the sales team. This is the best paying tech job as you get a cut of the sales commission. It is customer facing.
Then you have customer success / support. This can be a technical or non-technical role depending on the company.
The last tech job is implementation or professional services or onboarding. These people help customers use and setup the product.
Bigger places also have business intelligence or data science teams. These are database people with varying levels of technical expertise.
Each of these jabs has a very very different experience in the company. If you want prestige and perks, IT is the worst technical job to have at a current tech company. It is also very very different than being a software engineer.
You are incorrect. The field of technology is called IT. IT can be analogous with Finance. It's an umbrella term that can be many many many different teams. Typically in organizations most tech talent report to the CTO, but this isn't always the case.
Software Engineering is apart of IT. They are not different things. IT is just a more more general term to designate a specific domain or profession. The confusion comes from the use of IT. For example from the perspective of mostly business or sales people you hear the term "IT staff", which is usually some sort of desktop support person.
In most organizations software engineers and desktop support will at some point report to a CTO, but clearly their reporting structure is completely different.
It's not an easy problem to solve. But I think it starts with our education system. For the most part comapnies feel justified because they feel that not enough Americans are taking all of these tech jobs. And they would be right actually. When you work in tech, you're not very likely to work with a lot of other Americans, unless you're working in a small startup environment. The reality is that nearly 80-90% of your team mates will be foreign born. In my last job I was on a team of 25. Out of that number, only 3 of us were actually born in the USA. 2 were born in other countries but came to America at an early age. The rest were foreign born and were all in the USA on some sort of visa sponsorship. And 1 was an actual USA citizen from India who came to America as an adult.
This is not uncommon in most tech fields or departments. So we have to ask ourselves, why aren't Americans showing interest in tech. Or maybe they do, but it's much harder for them to compete with offshore talent. People like me with a lot of experience are USUALLY ok. And just for the record, I'm a black male. But someone entering the field from the USA typically is going to have a rough time without any real connections or nepotism.
So I think the core remains our education system. We don't really encourage children to go into STEM. As evidence in the shoddy way our public schools teach most hard sciences, which is more about memory than analytical thinking.
It's the same way in India and China. The actual difference is that their culture encourages them to enter tech to escape poverty. So many do this in hopes of changing their fortunes.
It's a huge problem all the way around, and it's not fair to H1B holders or American tech workers.
I honestly agree with you 100% especially the bolded.
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