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Old 08-07-2016, 08:30 AM
 
21,507 posts, read 10,633,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
Not for Southerners. They'll do more backflips than an American gymnast at the Olympics to say it was the war of northern aggression.
I've noticed that.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:33 AM
 
21,507 posts, read 10,633,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
It was and Lincoln was responsible for the deaths of 750,000. Slavery was peacefully abolished elsewhere in the world without any such war.
But would it have been peacefully abolished in the South? They really thought it was a right. I'm sure it would have been abolished naturally 20 or 30 years later due to the Industrial Revolution, but that is a whole generation for the people enslaved.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:38 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,750,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
But would it have been peacefully abolished in the South? They really thought it was a right. I'm sure it would have been abolished naturally 20 or 30 years later due to the Industrial Revolution, but that is a whole generation for the people enslaved.
750000 Americans butchered, the States becoming perpetual prisoners of war to the Federal Occupying Regime, the Southern States barbarically looted and pillaged by the Federal Overlords, which in turn made all people, black and white, slaves/subjects to the Hostile Federal Regime. Not good for anyone in the long run...
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:25 AM
 
4,804 posts, read 3,524,506 times
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620000 died, but there were over 1.5 million that died.. I had one GG Uncle die in Civil War, one Survived..
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,431,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
750000 Americans butchered, the States becoming perpetual prisoners of war to the Federal Occupying Regime, the Southern States barbarically looted and pillaged by the Federal Overlords, which in turn made all people, black and white, slaves/subjects to the Hostile Federal Regime. Not good for anyone in the long run...
Each century all the States across the globe compete to see which one can create the worst conditions that invariably lead to war/genocide/slavery/etc.

Then at the end of the century they add up the body count. First prize varies. I hear Mao got himself a free toaster for his efforts last century.
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:06 PM
 
4,804 posts, read 3,524,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Each century all the States across the globe compete to see which one can create the worst conditions that invariably lead to war/genocide/slavery/etc.

Then at the end of the century they add up the body count. First prize varies. I hear Mao got himself a free toaster for his efforts last century.
I think PolPot got a toaster too. He was at 25% of Cambodias citizens before he died. Peacefully.
Stalin, Hitler, Lenin, etc etc..
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Old 08-07-2016, 03:34 PM
 
24,459 posts, read 23,156,696 times
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What sick, demented crybaby said that flag was racist?
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Old 08-07-2016, 03:37 PM
 
4,804 posts, read 3,524,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
What sick, demented crybaby said that flag was racist?
A Black Postal Worker. Google is your friend.
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,162 posts, read 15,680,028 times
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In this case, I think someone is looking to retire early on a law suit. Make some easy money off the current flap about flags.
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,870,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
I don't believe it was that simple, at all.

The war was about states' rights vs. federal gov't power. Slavery was the issue that manifest the states' rights vs. federal power controversy.

However, from the very beginning of colonisation of what would become the US, the colonies were jealous of their individual sovereignty and to great degrees distrusted each other. It took oppressive acts by British Parliament to unite the colonies in war against GB, and when the war was ended, each of the original 13 colonies signed the peace treaty with GB individually, as sovereign states (state = nation).

When the original states formed the Articles of Confederacy, they did so as free and sovereign states, and again jealously guarded their freedom and independence.

When it became obvious that the AOC could not efficiently do what was needed, the states convened a constitutional convention and debated long as to the new form of the general (federal) government and regarding how to limit the power of the new general government.

The federalists debated the anti-federalists (then called republicans), and finally, the federalists convinced the anti-federalists that the new general government would be limited in powers and that the states would reserve their traditional rights and powers and autonomy.

Almost from the start, the federalists in the new government began over-stepping the limits set in the new constitution. In the 1790s, a case in the Georgia courts regarding a dispute over money owed to a private citizen loaned for the war was taken by the new Supreme Court, despite no power being granted SCOTUS to adjudicate such cases.

Of course, the industrial north did not rely on slave labor the way the agricultural south did, but, surely the northerners, excluding abolitionists, were no friends of black slaves (or later free men).

In any case, the argument over states' rights vs. federal power was an ongoing one that culminated in the US Civil War. Yes, then, slavery was the issue that manifest the dispute between states' rights and federal power. But, it was states' rights that the south fought for. Lowly Confederate soldiers, the vast majority of whom did not own slaves, often stated that they were fighting the revolution over again, for freedom from an over-bearing federal government.

Prior to the Civil War, people referred to and said, the United States ARE... Only after the Civil War did we begin to say, The United States IS...
Southerners afraid of losing political clout with a Repub. President and believed it would lead to the North being able to dictate to the South due to an eventual shift in Congressional votes. Slavery being a key issue. New western states coming soon into the Union were bound to be non-slave due to terrain and population sentiment. Southern leaders and their Press disbelieving Lincoln when he mentioned he would not abolish slavery is strangely akin to suspicion we see today about no-one wants to take away our guns comments by Demos. The Press back then whipped folks into a frenzy as now. Remember what a few years later General Sherman had to say about reporters in his own Army.

Southerners believed they were free to exit the Union so it could be seen as the War of Northern Aggression to a defeated country trying to understand why they lost.

Human nature does not change only the topics and setting
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