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If the trooper is a "suspect" he will be afforded the same rights as you.. actually perhaps some to a lesser extent because he will as a matter of his job be required to participate in the investigation or be potentially fired.. you as a private citizen do not.. you wouldn't be required to turn over evidence.. he was
His dashcam was taken,,his gun was taken.. his locker was searched his blood was taken his uniform was taken and on and on.. you wouldn't have to comply with any of that.
Can you post a source that he was tested for drug use? (I assume that's what you mean).
Because in North Carolina that would be extremely rare:
Not guilty and charges dismissed? Sounds to me like a dick cop that didn't like him not immediately listening to him.
No offense but you've really lost any credibility around topics like these. I mean, we all read your post and no matter what...the cops is a dick or an ass and is the bad guy and if it turns out the perp actually had a gun you disappear like a fart in the wind.
You have zero rationality in these incidents, facts don't matter, witnesses don't matter, the cop is a horrible person infringing on the rights of others.
I mean seriously, why don't you wait for actual cases of abuse and highlight them? If anything you are HELPING the bad police cover things up by crying wolf over and over.
Do you recognize what you are doing is opposite of you goal? Take a step back.
Where I live if a civilian kills somebody they are automatically tested for drug and alcohol use.
Please show your citation that citizens are tested for drugs routinely during homicide investigations.To take your bodily fluids requires a search warrant other than dui..and you can refuse that.
Police give up that right..generally ..in the US regardless of your posting. As a part of just about every policy and procedures manual today there are sections that talk about drug testing...
A union might object ..and anyone can refuse any test without a search warrant... An officer subjects themself to termination... A citizen just goes back to work and smokes another joint...
Reality vs internet wizard..don't be lazy and spoon fed...go look
Please feel free to contact ncsp for a copy of their manual. Then you can put to rest your point of view. On my phone I cannot access it...but I'm sure you can.
A Google search didn't find one case alluding to where a civilian is tested for drugs or alcohol during homicide investigations. For such a process to occur would require sufficient probable cause to justify a search warrant. This might be used to prove or disprove a case of diminished capacity...or connection of the drug to the crime. Dui is different because that consent is given as a process of having a license..a privilege..not a right
My perspective of this is NOT an end all. It calls into question the rush to judgement made by people in this thread...I know you like to get sidetracked by me. Resist posting as the moderators would say.. if you have nothing substantive to add to the discussion.This holds especially true for grossly inaccurate statements ...we can all be wrong...but we should try to keep our thoughts within the bounds of reality
Reality..until everything is released its all ones and zeros
Now as a part of a DEATH investigation during autopsy we all get tox screens... What if the man comes back with drugs in his system? Marijuana for instance.. .can we definitively say it caused the incident
Nope
Could a drug alter his thought process and ability to be reasonable ..absolutely
Can I go there..no..
But others not using this type of logic have already convicted the trooper
Last edited by notmeofficer; 08-25-2016 at 07:55 AM..
No offense but you've really lost any credibility around topics like these. I mean, we all read your post and no matter what...the cops is a dick or an ass and is the bad guy and if it turns out the perp actually had a gun you disappear like a fart in the wind.
I've seen it happen too many times. I have NEVER disappeared from a thread.
Quote:
You have zero rationality in these incidents, facts don't matter, witnesses don't matter, the cop is a horrible person infringing on the rights of others.
I mean seriously, why don't you wait for actual cases of abuse and highlight them? If anything you are HELPING the bad police cover things up by crying wolf over and over.
Do you recognize what you are doing is opposite of you goal? Take a step back.
He was unarmed. There is NO reason to have shot him. These kinds of problems have happened many times in the past and should have been addressed long ago. It would not be difficult to mark the license of those with a handicap as having a handicap.
What does North Carolina do? Rather than address that problem they pass laws that make it harder for society to access information that society owns.
Why judging before every fact is know. It sounds like all posters don't like to wait for all facts to be known.
Indeed it is very sad someone died. Being deaf doesn't make someone having to watch the road and seeing the lights flashing to be pulled over. If the person didn't speed than I doubt the cops would pull him over and neither would it happen if the person went just a few miles over the speed limit.
It seems right now a chase occurred.
We need to know how fast the guy going and why didn't he stop but kept speeding.
It is sad that someone died!
Yes, a 10-mile chase, after which the driver exited the vehicle. In addition, since he vandalized property in response to having been fired from a previous job, it's at least reasonable to consider that he may not have been acting rationally.
I've seen it happen too many times. I have NEVER disappeared from a thread.
He was unarmed. There is NO reason to have shot him. These kinds of problems have happened many times in the past and should have been addressed long ago. It would not be difficult to mark the license of those with a handicap as having a handicap.
What does North Carolina do? Rather than address that problem they pass laws that make it harder for society to access information that society owns.
Um..there was some reason
You just don't know what it was
Was it justifiable?
Was it evil?
We will learn in time..... Jumping to conclusions based on a story is like building on sand.. arguments disappear
Me..I await the evidence.... I think if the trooper had been dirty they would have been really quick to finish their investigation and move to charging him...
Investigations take time...a couple of weeks just for preliminary findings... Life isn't a tv show all neatly wrapped up in your dinner hour.
For your sake I hope the trooper is guilty.... Of something... Is doing his job guilty enough?
We will learn in time..... Jumping to conclusions based on a story is like building on sand.. arguments disappear
Me..I await the evidence.... I think if the trooper had been dirty they would have been really quick to finish their investigation and move to charging him...
That rarely happens. The Feds are still sitting on the Garner case.
Quote:
Investigations take time...a couple of weeks just for preliminary findings... Life isn't a tv show all neatly wrapped up in your dinner hour.
For your sake I hope the trooper is guilty.... Of something... Is doing his job guilty enough?
Some of you think so...
Shooting unarmed citizens is not a part of his job description.
You questions are relevant and fair
PIT maneuvers are huge uses of force..because of the high potential for injury or death... and way up there in the use of force continuum
Every killing of another is a homicide,, whether you do it or a policeman does it... the law provides for justifiable homicide under a certain set of circumstances.
You as a private citizen do not generally and as a routine course of business with all the authority invested in you as prescribed by the law do not conduct traffic stops for vehicle code violations
The trooper did
A citizen does not generally have any duty to stop for you
The man has to,, but didnt stop for the trooper
You generally do not have the right to chase someone.. especially in a long pursuit
The trooper did
You generally cannot ram someone with your car to stop a pursuit (and by this point we may have a felony fleeing and eluding..but I dont know as none of us are privy to the reports yet)
The trooper does have the authority,, as a matter of fact he may have had to request a higher authority for such a maneuver.. we would have to be authorized by both the on-scene field sergeant AND the station watch commander...
(see pictures of the end of the pursuit and you will see heavy damage to the front end of the trooper's vehicle and moderate front end damage to the mans vehicle) I am very curious how the man's vehicle sustained damage.. did he crash at the end,, or did he crash purposefully at some point using his car
A citizen has the same right as a police officer to resist a battery OR APPARENT battery to their person and can use only that amount of force which is reasonable , necessary, and fully justified by the circumstances. While a citizen may have to retreat before that use of force a policeman does not
Use of force continuum does not mean I have to talk to you,, then use a control hold,, then use a less than lethal weapon,, then a potentially lethal weapon.. then deadly force.. it can go from A to Z and skip everything in between if justified...
I think you are stating is the man was shot immediately,, I mean right now at the end of the pursuit.. that will have to be determined.. right now its just a story.. all germane.. but a story
Lets follow this.. and see how the investigations by several non involved agencies plays out
As far as "stonewalling" I call bunk on that. A department ALWAYS wants the heat off it as quickly as possible BUT.. if they are going to exonerate.. or charge they have to be thorough.. methodical.. factual.. in this incident I bet there will be 100 witnesses with more coming forward each day,, every account will have to be memorialized and investigated for veracity and content.. there will be people who weren't within 100 miles of this incident who will come out of the woodwork because they saw it on the news and want their ten seconds... happens on all high profile news cases.
If the trooper is a "suspect" he will be afforded the same rights as you.. actually perhaps some to a lesser extent because he will as a matter of his job be required to participate in the investigation or be potentially fired.. you as a private citizen do not.. you wouldn't be required to turn over evidence.. he was
His dashcam was taken,,his gun was taken.. his locker was searched his blood was taken his uniform was taken and on and on.. you wouldn't have to comply with any of that.
Mmmm. Well, like I said, I was taking the car out of the equation, at the point the shots were fired. Yes, I've seen the vehicle damage, and that the man CERTAINLY, failed to comply with a demand to pull over is not in question. Still, it boils down to the end events. After he gets out of the car. That's where I'm hazy on this. The rules have changed at that point. . So, I'm quite curious as to what the man did that made the Trooper draw and fire. Since the vehicle is the lethal component, and it's out of play, at this point,, I just want to hear what other lethal means the Trooper judged the man to have.
As to what the procedure was with the Trooper, truly, that doesn't sound all that different from what a citizens duties and requirements are, following a self defense using lethal force. Particularly a firearm. Oh, yon will , most definitely, be required to be a part of an investigation. Both on the spot, at the station, and probably a few follow on sessions, and finally, in court. Surrender of your weapon is mandatory, you will be tested for alcohol and illegal drugs, quite possibly taken into custody.
So the difference between what this Trooper has had to do, and a citizen? Pretty negligible. He has to pull his uniform and is now off duty, the dashcam goes without say, all evidence being turned over as well(which goes for a citizen too. You had BETTER give up all evidence), and cooperate fully in the investigation. What yon say is being required of the Trooper doesn't seem out of line, or demeaning in any way. Just SOP. If his Q&A session s are anything like a citizen shooting one, that can get a bit demeaning. Attempts to trip you up, totally idiotic questions, (much of that being rhetorical in nature) oh, it can get ....pretty bad.
Been there. Twice. Once personally, the other with a loved one who had to fight off an attacker. In my case, I spent the rest of the day and a good part of the night in an interrogation room. Had a few Q&As at my residence, took me almost two months to get my weapon back, had to pee in a cup, (no blood work though) I was enentually cleared, but had to do a brief court appearance. Never quite got that last part. Since the DA wasn't going to prosecute me, I don't see the need. Maybe it makes the paperwork easier, idk. I got up, the DA told the judge no charges would be leveled, BANG, dismissed.
The other case wasn't as ...uncomplicated. To my mind it was far more cut and dry, but...WHEW!! She spent a couple days in the hospital. Uniforms did the initial report, and that went...OK. There were two, and one asked the other to skeedaddle. He was t...contributing...much. Some of the follow on was tough to swallow. A particular detective made it so. Long story short, she got put through the ringer. There was a tough court ordeal with this, since her attacker lived, such as it is, and so got his day in court.
To summarize, your last statements almost make it seem as if cops have it tougher than citizens, even in a good shoot/lethal self defense. It just ain't nesseccarily so. Nothing you described that he would have to comply with differs that radically from what a regular citizen would have to. I wish I had had a dashcam. Might have simplified things. Both the incidents worked out, in the end. But, it was far from as simple as you think it might be. The Deputy that did the initial report in the second case, I do feel a shout should go out to. The way he handled things showed that he knew what he was dealing with. He may have ...bent...a rule or two, but that was the hand he was dealt, so he ran with it.
As it stands with the case in question, we'll get the answers eventually. Yes, it may take a bit, which is where the issue with the public arises. These things can take time, especially when there's highly questionable circumstances. Proper answers, derived from all the evidence, and decisions on how to go forward have to go through the system. That's not so hard for you and I to sit on, but the mans family, in this case, won't have such an easy wait. Or the Troopers either, in all fairness.
I never leave home without a dashcam...I have one in every vehicle I own
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Take a step back.
Might have simplified things. Both the incidents worked out, in the end. But, it was far from as simple as you think it might be. The Deputy that did the initial report in the second case, I do feel a shout should go out to. The way he handled things showed that he knew what he was dealing with. He may have ...bent...a rule or two, but that was the hand he was dealt, so he ran with it. 
