Another racial issues discussion-looking for input *especially* from fellow blacks. (2013, banks)

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Frogburn

I studied biology (a STEM) in college. I have a life of reading on my own and read pretty broadly. So, knowledge and reasoning are things I appreciate. However, I have a background in the Marine Corps (running in up hill in fire team rushes with a gas mask on) and after the Corps I labored physically, often for low pay, such as literally (not figuratively) crawling on hands and knees on top of a factory roof under ductwork, dragging on a metal sled with steel rollers, boiling hot buckets of tar. All day long. Back and forth. And at any point if one of those buckets fell I probably would have been severely scaled across my body, with only my screams signalling roofers to run to rescue me. This all under a blazing summer sun.

Said kind of labor informs my own persepective. Just like being a lead man (leadership) on a painting construction job where I have to physically break up two other workers (painters) from nearly coming to blows. Or getting into a verbal altercation with a white roofer, that could have potentially went to blows, over him referring to a female office worker as a "n---er." In the Marine Corps I came up in an NCO was regarded as weak if he led "by the power of the pen" (white collar style threats and punishment which are administrative in nature rather than physical). When I picked up the tank of NCO (an E-4) I lead by the threat of violence but more importantly by my men having confidence, is my own example, that I would go through whatever they go through, including when I "trashed" them (physical exercise as punishment). So, they had confidence that if I asked them to run up a hill with a rifle in hand to assault a position they knew I asked them to do no more than what I would be willing to do myself. And I slapped box one of my troops that wanted to personally test my stamina once.

My own experiences inform my own persepective.

People from academia or white collar work view leadership as merely belittlement with their mouth or casting threats out with their mouth. For me, a leader need be willing to flip a desk to the side and attack a man at his neck, chocking him halfvto death, if need be. Not so unlike the difference between an Italian mobsters who rise through the ranks breaking knees and heads, from that of one who aristocratically inherited his leadership as boss from his powerful mob father even though he himself has only lived in splendor and always led as a prince.

So, I have a long vertical scar running up my belly. It happens from surgery when you get rolled in from taking a police bullet to your abdomen. Scars on other parts of my belly were a cops bullets hit them. But I come from the school of the streets where you drink your milk when another man of violence "handles his business." I don't cry about what a cop did to me. He acted appropriately. What ticks me off faaar more is his lies and and that of the other cop on their official police reports.

So, I'm not marching in peace as mayor of Chicago to dramatically reduce the violence in Chicago. If need be I'm sitting across the table from the leaders of the gangs and telling them to their face, that here's how it's going to go. They are going to rethink their business plan, and when they sell drugs they are not going to be murdering addicts late on money or who mess up these credit line, they are not going to attack or threaten the family members of addicts. They are not going to allow street hoodlums to run wild in their neighborhoods robbing people, knocking over old black grandmothers. And they can get rich, screw tons of women, and I'll tell my cops to leave them alone (leave them alone in the sense of don't over police them, don't harass them, but I can't stop the police from arresting them for drunk driving or investigating them for a homicide etc.). But if I hear about bodies piling up. I'm killing them. I'm killing all of them. And their money and cars I'll give to the blue collar working black men, young and old, in Chicago (you white collar black people can go f--- yourselves).

They don't have to worry about the cops standing around me in the room. They have to worry about being in the room with me. Because I'll flip that desk out of the way and kick one of them into a coma. I'll right no charge with a pen. I'll break jaws with my fist.

Now, that is "anti-intellectual," but by the time you white collar types get down talking to one another over statistics and woo woo woo... I'll have already been getting things fixed on the ground.

And the poor men are going to love me because not the white collar black liberals nor the drug dealers and gangsters are going to be opening up the wealth to them radically changing their lives. I will. And I'm not waiting no 300 more years to get an extra 2 cents like the likes of John Lewis do. Poor black men are going to think I'm like the LGBTQ and Million Women March. I'm demanding the cut off the top for them now, not a little bit 20 years from now. Chicago has vaults stuffed full of cash for the City Government doing nothing but sitting, growing larger. I'm cracking that f---re open. And as mayor with my own army, God help any man that stands in my way.



I'm not a gang member. But I came up around plenty of people involved in that. The impact of the GD's in the Midwest or the Crips out on the West Coast can't be minimized. They have impacted more black lives and communities than Al Qaida. Or for you Hillary Democrats... they have impacted more black people, more black communities, than Assad in Syria or Putin in Russia. But you John Lewis types, in your elitism and f--- the rest of Black-America left suffering, don't get that.

It is very relevant.




You just called the black woman in the video ridiculous. Basically, you're saying none of her points are valid. Yeah, a black Amsterdam will never occur under the leadership of you or a John Lewis. That's why I prefer the Nation of Islammeven though I am staunchly Christian, with Coptic Orthodox sympathies and pray to the Holy Mother of God.

Leaving black peoples in the Detroit ghettos or brown and black people in the Rio de Janeiro favelas to suffer and be prey upon by thugs of their own skin hue does nothing to advance the whole.

Floyd Mayweather is a boxer and given I have some novice boxing experience I appreciate his time, energy, and career spent as a pugilist. Even better he made millions doing so. I'd prefer more young black males wanting to be "tough" emulate him in spending time and energy in boxing gyms rather than emulate celebrity members of the Bloods street gang.



So what. I have some college education and a two-year degree as well.

A lot of college educated black liberals are snobbish. Some aren't. But it is easy for many to become snobs.

I went to university and know you can't use Wikipedia as an academic source. Understandly so. However, even with college educated people online routinely dismissing Wikipedia with their noses in the air is rooted in snobbery. I love Wikipedia and YouTube. Dismissing YouTube is snobbish too. Someone speaking on YouTube is no less than you typing in this thread. I f---ing love ❤️ YouTube. I can nearly find examples of how to do anything on that thing. I just recently used it to find out how to lace my leather dress shoes with straight bar style of lacing. I scroll on their and see recorded interviews of everyone from Obama to Floyd Mayweather sitting with some rap artist named Soulja Boy. Love it. I used to even use YouTube for some problems I would have science courses at UW-Milwaukee. The Ivy League universities of the United States have f---ing recorded college science course posted up on YouTube.



Atlanta is still one of the black meccas of the USA. Unless the US no longer has any at all having lost Detroit as one.

So, you are saying Atlanta has no Crips or Bloods or are so few in number that very few blacks in Atlanta even now of their existence there?

I wonder how true that is? I don't live in Atlanta, so, maybe it is true. All I know is that this rape artist Soulja Boy claims that he is a Blood and that he apparently first entered the Bloods gang while living as a youth in Atlanta.

The woman in the video, the OP asked what we thought of her. I provided a response based on my view that she is not relevant to black America and is not representative of black Americans today. She also says some pretty outrageous and ridiculous things. Contrary to what you may believe YouTube is a "channel" like on TV. Controversy, sex, and ridiculousness are things that bring the highest amount of ratings/views/clicks. Just like I don't consider "Real Housewives of Atlanta" to be reflective of the lives of "real" black American women - I don't consider the rantings and ramblings of a random YouTuber to be relevant at all in the lives of "real" black women or black America at large. To think that she is, IMO is ridiculous.

The question was specifically about her videos and her channel and any other random YouTuber who sets up a camera and rants about something. There is a lot of relevant informative material on YouTube as well but the ones brought forth in this thread primarily are not, and as such, should not be construed to be representative of the ideas, beliefs, and values of the majority of black Americans in this country because they are not.

On your gang references and work/military history and all that jazz. I'm not all that interested in your personal life. All I know from your post history within the thread is that you do not stay focused on a topic and you wander all around to various subjects that don't have anything to do with one another.

I learned in school, starting in 5th grade from a very learned, "intellectual" teacher (who I adored) that when one cannot adequately write they are at a disadvantage. Writing, like with a variety of other subjects, one must know how to "think" about a particular subject to form an opinion. One must know how to "think" and examine various points of view via reputable sources that both support and don't support their opinion in order to formulate a thesis. One must be able to know how to identify a "reputable" source. One must be able to instruct and/or persuade another person regarding the advantages and/or disadvantages of his/her opinion. One must then organize all of the above in a logical, precise manner so that their audience can be made immediately known of the intent of the author and supplied with the opinion/thesis and/or instructions. The above, for me, is also the basis for intellectualism, which involves critical thinking, review of material that is in opposition to one's thoughts/opinions, ability to organize, ability to rationalize, ability to provide relevant, reputable sources to support one's opinion.

When other people go off on tangents and are unfocused, I notice it, and it is sad to me because it seems no one is teaching our youth how to think and organize anymore. I don't know how old you are, but you seem rather young based on your knowledge of the gang affiliations of rappers (lol). It makes me believe that our "system" has failed you in that you do not know how to focus in order to write about a particular topic. For me that indicates a lack of dedication in our society to acquiring and imparting knowledge. It is a symptom of anti-intellectualism.

[pandorafan5687]

With Emmett Till's accuser confessing that she lied, do you feel that we as blacks are too quick to forgive others? Why or why not?

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

With Emmett Till's accuser confessing that she lied, do you feel that we as blacks are too quick to forgive others? Why or why not?

I don't think any forgiveness had ever been done in that situation.

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

I don't think any forgiveness had ever been done in that situation.

I'd hope not! That being said, I'm talking more of a general sense. Do you think we are too accepting of people who don't accept us back?

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

I'd hope not! That being said, I'm talking more of a general sense. Do you think we are too accepting of people who don't accept us back?

I think a lot of that is a matter of accepting reality.

"Writing off" a debt that you know will never be paid is not the same thing as forgiving the debt.

[Klassyhk]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

Anti-intellectualism is global and not just native to the US IMO.

I think recently that the vast amount of Americans as a whole, including black American have become anti-intellectual.

And for green_mariner one being college educated does not mean that they cannot also be anti-intellectual.

Too many college educators and students today are indeed anti-intellectual IMO and especially many of the black students who don't believe they should be faced with tough questions and situations in America.
...Today, you see too many black people in particular IMO taking on these wishy washy liberal views. My view on this is a reason why a lot of people view me as a "black republican" lol. Liberalism has pushed the idea, especially in public education, that black people are worse than other demographics and that we should be felt sorry for and not challenged. This is especially so since integration of public schools and bussing came into the mix and less black educators were teaching and administering in predominantly black schools. People are taught that they are victims instead of being taught that they are strong in family and culture despite the lack of material possessions or wealth. These kids grow up and feel they have "something to prove" to others instead of inherently knowing, like prior black intellectuals knew, that if given the opportunity to fully participate in American society, blacks would succeed in prospering socially and economically in this country.

Too often too many blacks IMO let the liberals speak for us instead of speaking for ourselves. Many of our younger students feel they need protection and their own "spaces" and they ignore the fact that the only "safe spaces" for black Americans, culturally and historically have always been black institutions in regards to family, places of faith/worship, and historical black institutions. When you are not in these cultural, historical places, then you may be in a hostile environment where you must use your knowledge and intellect to navigate that place and not lose yourself - your culture, your history, basically your "roots" in order to have some false sense of safety. This, IMO is anti-intellectualism amongst our younger generations. The desire to have everything be "easy" and never to face tough questions or circumstances..."

Wow, residinghere I have to rep you! I've always thought of you and I being two posters on polar ends of how we view African-American issues. However, apparently I was wrong. I COMPLETELY agree with what you've stated. Your post so closely mirrors my own sentiments that it seems that you were typing conversations I've had with other Blacks friends whom I get together with whenever our schedules permit and we reflect, discuss, and debate issues that affect African-Americans.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

I'd hope not! That being said, I'm talking more of a general sense. Do you think we are too accepting of people who don't accept us back?

I think many blacks are too focused on being seen as a "forgiving" person/people.

However, I will note that I do feel that forgiveness is something that must be done in order to move on and out of anger and desperation and the debility of oppression.

On the "acceptance" part of your questions, I don't believe we are accepting of horrible occurrences as a whole. If we were, we would not have a cultural history of direct activism. If anything, we are the group least likely in this country to "accept" horrible treatments IMO.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Klassyhk

Wow, residinghere I have to rep you! I've always thought of you and I being two posters on polar ends of how we view African-American issues. However, apparently I was wrong. I COMPLETELY agree with what you've stated. Your post so closely mirrors my own sentiments that it seems that you were typing conversations I've had with other Blacks friends whom I get together with whenever our schedules permit and we reflect, discuss, and debate issues that affect African-Americans.

Ironically, the views I espouse on what I spoke of are very common amongst my own social circle of black friends/family.

There is a misconception IMO that black Americans are entirely liberal wishy washy on education (which is especially not the case) or don't think from a perspective that is drastically different from how we are characterized. I'll note that I probably don't share a lot of the views you may have on the black experience and our "issues" though as the primary issue I see in black America (other than health disparities) is the fact that we lack a knowledge of our culture and history in this country and due to that are willing to believe media and random YouTubers as being representative of the majority of blacks today.

I have noticed that some of the things that the OP has shared in the thread, especially the rise of YouTube and the black nationalist or token black conservative YouTubers who are famous, have become seen as something that a majority of ALL blacks in this country agree with or that people wish we would all agree with is disturbing. Both of those spectrums have always been a minority and on the outside of mainstream black America and if we knew our history and especially knew of our historical and still living black intellectuals, we would not even consider those people and their views to be representative of the black experience. We would also be aware of the fact that there is no such thing as a "safe space" and we would be much more willing to question, think, and debate about topics and form action plans for our communities to tackle issues that actually are important to us.

[pandorafan5687]

Did anyone watch the Trunpet Awards this year? How about the Image Awards last night?

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

With Emmett Till's accuser confessing that she lied, do you feel that we as blacks are too quick to forgive others? Why or why not?

Quoting my own post....I want to expound on this. What do you think about this woman's whereabouts being hidden? How do you feel about the book deal? How about the fact that the book won't be released until long after her death?