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you mean like how the democrats laid out ACA before they passed it?
like that?
Reposting it because it apparently can't be done enough:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Here we go again.
Pelosi was not talking about the final ACA legislation, but the Senate's initial version of the bill.
As ACA was entering the final stretch, opponents were rattling on how ACA was all about "death panels," abortions, being a "job-killer," ... yada, yada, yada.
The Senate had not yet passed a bill, and until they produced an actual piece of legislation that could be matched up, debated, and reconciled with the bill passed by the House, the process was at a standstill.
Pelosi pointed out that the Senate would need to actually vote for a bill so that everyone could see what was included in their version and what was not.
Just to be clear, Pelosi was talking about the initial Senate version of the bill and how it was all pure speculation at that point. No one knew what the Senate bill would actually contain until the Senate actually voted on it.
I realize this is a difficult concept to grasp. But I'm willing to repeat it as often as necessary.
uhm.... ACA was a shell that was filled out after passage by the executive branch. we never knew what the law was because it was built to give more power to the executive branch to create than typical laws.
knowing what was "in it" didn't even happen until years after its passage.
and what we do know is that it is a job killer. It did in fact create a situation where people were forced to either provide abortions or quit being medical professionals.
the law ended up in court because the law and its creators, and its executive fiat freaks forced people of honest religious beliefs to be in violation of their faith. REQUIRED.
The law is now crashing the system.
ACA was never intended to be a law that anyone understood before it was too late. IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY.
There goes entrepreneurship. Today's pimple-faced coder in the basement, gets an angel round of funding, takes on employees and they don't have employer sponsored healthcare. That doesn't show up until 10-20 employees. At that size anyone with an expensive condition could put the employer on precarious ground so they fire that employee. At will employment after all. Wow great plan there.
That is true. Many folks fail to realize how much influence employers have in dumping employees because of their health even though the employee still works everyday. If an employee developes a chronic condition, it not only effects the employee but the employers bottom line pertaining to insurance costs. This has been going on since the formulation of "Welfare Capitalism" (employer provided health insurance).
In the early post WW2 days when employer provided health insurance really took off, large employers were notorious for weeding out those employees with health issues. The practice over time was frowned opon, mainly through union negotiations. Laws then changed to discourage this behaviour but it still exists in subtle ways even today. I've seen it happen second hand, and it is also well documented in US health care history.
^^^^ This is precisely the situation. Trump and the GOP are so Hellbent on getting rid of everything Obama, that they are simply going to repeal Obamacare and they have nothing figured out yet to replace it. I really feel sorry for the millions of people who depended on it and also those who have pre existing conditions. They are probably going to suffer the worst.
This is no different than everything else Trump did during his campaign.......he spouted all these great promises, but had no plans or programs to back them up. Anytime he was asked HOW he was going to do something, he basically said "I'll tell you when the time comes, trust me !"
Well, I don't trust him.
At this point I'd be happy if it was repealed and things went back to they way they were.
My health insurance sucks now.
Premiums more than doubled.
Deductible quadrupled.
And now EVERYTHING goes towards the deductible.
A simple office visit can cost me over $300.00. When it used to be $35.00.
I would have had a lot more respect for Dems and Obama if they had focused more on bringing down the actual costs of health care instead of forcing everyone to buy health insurance.
That is true. Many folks fail to realize how much influence employers have in dumping employees because of their health even though the employee still works everyday. If an employee developes a chronic condition, it not only effects the employee but the employers bottom line pertaining to insurance costs. This has been going on since the formulation of "Welfare Capitalism" (employer provided health insurance).
In the early post WW2 days when employer provided health insurance really took off, large employers were notorious for weeding out those employees with health issues. The practice over time was frowned opon, mainly through union negotiations. Laws then changed to discourage this behaviour but it still exists in subtle ways even today. I've seen it happen second hand, and it is also well documented in US health care history.
This is particularly true of employers with smaller pools of employees. One or two heart surgeries and a cancer treatment or two could really bump up the numbers.
It's one of the reasons that older employees were often cut loose. Their medical bills tend to be higher and they are at more risk of strokes, heart attacks....
What good is it forcing people to buy plans that have such high deductibles that they literally can't afford to use them?
There's good in it. Insurance is two things, a scheme and a racket. What is more beautiful than having a mandate that compels millions to purchase insurance, pay a monthly premium with infrequent payouts. Lovely.
This is particularly true of employers with smaller pools of employees. One or two heart surgeries and a cancer treatment or two could really bump up the numbers.
It's one of the reasons that older employees were often cut loose. Their medical bills tend to be higher and they are at more risk of strokes, heart attacks....
I've seen it happen in a very large defense contractor. This company has both union and non-union employees. This behaviour apparently is easier to accomplish with non-union employees. In particular a 15 year "benefits" employee who knew exactly what was going to happen to her having dealt with health insurance executives and their shenanigans at their corporate headquarters.
My personal experience was working for a small company, in which everyone was over 40. The rates were staggering long before the ACA.
A simple office visit can cost me over $300.00. When it used to be $35.00.
I would have had a lot more respect for Dems and Obama if they had focused more on bringing down the actual costs of health care instead of forcing everyone to buy health insurance.
$35 for an office visit? You are remembering the good old days.
People seem to forget that health insurance costs were spiraling out of affordability leading up to ACA.
"Family health insurance premiums more than doubled between 1999 and 2009, far outpacing the growth in workers’ earnings and overall inflation."
"Since health insurance premiums are often shared between workers and their employers, this disproportionate rise in the cost of health insurance helps illustrate why it is increasingly difficult for both employers and their workers to afford."
Though they tried to meet the rising costs with higher deductibles and raising employee contributions, many small businesses ended up dropping their health insurance benefits altogether.
When the financial meltdown hit, lot of people lost their jobs and their health insurance along with it.
So you have health insurance costs spiraling out of control, people losing their health insurance left and right, insurance companies declining to insure pre-existing conditions, dropping policies when claims were made, caps...
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