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Lol. That map in post #102 reminds me of the map of US military bases around the world that Farrakhan presents in the video. He points out how the US is trying to encircle Russia and moved missiles into that region aimed at Russia.
I like his point about the USA incapable of winning wars. He's smarter than any US General (if the buffoons can't win in Iraq why taking one a far greater military power like Russia, when in fact they were nit bother you, but you went over there bothering them) and he speaks with far more Christian truth than any Christian leader including and probably most especially the Pope in Rome himself.
You know well the CIA wants Farrakhan dead. White supremacist want him dead. But he speaks more strongly to the powerful than the Pope even with a trillion more enemies than the Pope has.
Saudi Arabia does not have nukes pointed at us. Russia is a threat to Eastern Europe and we are a member of NATO which defends Europe. Russia scares the crap out of most of Europe and has for almost 100 years. Remember that Stalin and Hitler had plans to divvy up Europe until Hitler turned on Russia.
Yes..."scary".....so we better breaking it up right?? Which was/is the plan all along....but guess what, they do not like it....the West would love a very weak or broken Russia.
By the way, public opinion in Europe is not scared of Putin...that is hogwash.
Last edited by saturno_v; 03-02-2017 at 01:38 PM..
No democrat wants war with Russia, but democrats don't want to (blindly) be close friends with Russia. But since Trump likes Russia and the Russian government hacks US elections to help republicans (American republicans ignore everything Russia does to America and they want to be trusted friends with Russia.)
There's nothing wrong with wanting peace with Russia and Saudi Arabia, but democrats don't want to blindly trust them after everything they have done and are doing to America.
Obama and Hillary trusted them enough to weaken our military while all of those "terrible things the Russians were doing" were going on.
They trusted Saudi Arabia, too.
Obama even bowed to them.
Last edited by dechatelet; 03-02-2017 at 01:51 PM..
Nice try. The investigations haven't even begun yet, and you are declaring the results. Come back in a month and let's talk again.
And the investigations won't go anywhere.
They are stuck in congressional committees, where they will stay because they involve classified material.
The intel agencies have already briefed those committees and not presented a shred of evidence that anyone from the Trump campaign -- including Jeff Sessions -- conspired with Russia.
Firstly, let's not pretend that this about culture or moral values, because that couldn't be further from the truth. If we're operating on that principle, why is Saudi Arabia considered an ally? It's one of the most backward and oppressive regimes on the planet, they're basically ISIS but with more money. In reality, Russia has far more in common with us than many of our so-called allies.
In terms of Saudi Arabia, the countries Human Rights record is unacceptable and whilst we do trade with Saudi Arabia I would hardly call it a close friendship based on a common culture, it's at best a business and financial relationship based on trade. Which is what we had with Russia prior to recent events.
"Western" is a very vague and imprecise term, under many definitions Russia is western. The reason why many countries entered the western fold is because the west exploited Russian weakness in the 90's and early 2000's in order to expand organisations such as NATO and the EU into former Soviet territories. Granted, many of these were naturally going to drift west, but after this NATO continued to push and overplay its hand. Pro-western political movements have received covert support in virtually all of Russia's neighboring countries, and even within Russia itself.
As I have already explained Eastern Europe and even more so Russia are a world away from liberal western democracy, they are run by an organised elite with links to organised crime, they rule by fear and will exploit any weakness. In terms of the states bordering Russia, they were given the opportunity to join NATO and the EU, which a number have done, this is called democracy. Something Russia where the elections are rigged by Putin wouldn't know about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razza94
Western intelligence agencies recently supported the overthrow of the pro-Russian government in Ukraine. It's fair to say that Ukraine is destabilised, yes Russia has played a part in that, but so has the west by helping to create the crisis to begin with.
The Russians did most of the destabalising in Ukraine and even helped shoot down a Civilian Airliner, so lets not try to blame the West and NATO for events in Ukraine. The EU did the most meddling but then again that doesn't surprise me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razza94
Russia is wrong to fly military jets over NATO territory, but equally NATO is wrong to encircle Russia with military bases that are continually creeping further towards Russian territory.
There are very few NATO Bases in Eastern Europe, however the way Putin is acting may indeed help change that, and lead to much more NATO forces being moved to Eastern Europe on a permanent footing.
Last edited by Brave New World; 03-02-2017 at 02:12 PM..
All these accusations all over the left side of the media begs the question from me, what's wrong with being friends with Russia? They're not the worst country of the there, I mean, we're friends with Saudi Arabia for crying out loud .
there is nothing wrong with being friends with Russia. I welcome it.
I have been something of a Russophile for decades, since I became Orthodox in the Russian tradition. I am interested in the history and the culture of the country and would like some day to visit. I like the people I have met and I am glad that they have been freed from the yoke of Communism.
But Putin is a ruthless monster who murders his political opponents and meddles with the democracies of Europe. The Russian's own democracy has been undermined and is now a vicious exploitative plutocracy, a form of capitalism at it's very worst.
Russian government meddling in the political processes of Europe was all well known before they started hacking the various state-run electoral commissions and political operations in the USA. This follows a pattern they had already been active doing in some of the NATO countries.
The democratic process is sacrosanct here. As far as I am concerned, when someone meddles with the democratic processes in our country it is an act of war, and any American who participates or covers for them is guilty of treason.
The Russian and British Royal Families were closely related, however there was often an unease in relation to Russia and it's intentions and after the revolution relations were even more strained.
Russian Tsar Nicholas II and Tsarina Alexandra with their four daughters (Romanov Collection) visit Osborne House on the Isle of Wight in 1909. The Tsar's wife Tsarina Alexandra (Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse)) Empress consort of Russia was one of Queen Victoria's Grandchildren, as was Kaiser Wilhelm II and Queen Victoria was related to many of the Royal Houses of Europe. Sadly the First World War saw British and Russian Cousins on the same side, and fighting their German Cousin Kaiser Wilhelm II. The execution of the Russian Royal during the subsequent Russian Revolution was never fully forgiven by their British Cousins.
Obama and Hillary trusted them enough to weaken our military while all of those "terrible things the Russians were doing" were going on.
America spends more on the military than Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, France, United Kingdom, India and Germany combined. Russia spends less than $100 billion dollars a year on its military while America spends $610 billion per year on the military. Plus America's weapons are more advanced than Russia's and America could reduce its military spending by $500 billion dollars a year and still be much more powerful than Russia.
But the defense corporations give most of their political donations to republicans, and republicans like high defense spending to keep their defense corporation campaign contributors happy.
In terms of Saudi Arabia, the countries Human Rights record is unacceptable and whilst we do trade with Saudi Arabia I would hardly call it a close friendship based on a common culture, it's at best a business and financial relationship based on trade. Which is what we had with Russia prior to recent events.
It's far closer than that, since we have mutual foreign policy interests. We sell them weapons, we share intelligence, they allow the US to station troops within their country, and they have given us direct assistance in military conflicts. Recently they took part in bombing campaigns alongside coalition forces in the early stages of the fight against ISIS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
As I have already explained Eastern Europe and even more so Russia are a world away from liberal western democracy, they are run by an organised elite with links to organised crime, they rule by fear and will exploit any weakness.
This is the problem, so many in the West feel that they have a duty to sanctimoniously lecture Russia on its culture and political system. Russia has a tradition of strongman leader,s and their experience with Democracy in the 90's was awful. Why would anyone in Russia want to return to that era?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
In terms of the states bordering Russia, they were given the opportunity to join NATO and the EU, which a number have done, this is called democracy. Something Russia where the elections are rigged by Putin wouldn't know about.
You have to respect that Russia, like the US, has its own sphere of influence. To encourage its neighbours to join institutions that are hostile to Russia is an antagonistic strategy. A similar thing happened in Latin America during the Cold War, and the US reacted with military force, despite the fact that many of those governments were democratically elected. Also, don't pretend that the West can lecture others on respecting the wishes of foreign governments. Russia rightly sees nothing but hypocrisy in these criticisms. Look the number of anti-western foreign regimes that have been violently overthrown in recent decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
The Russians did most of the destabalising in Ukraine and even helped shoot down a Civilian Airliner, so lets not try to blame the West and NATO for events in Ukraine. The EU did the most meddling but then again that doesn't surprise me.
So let's just pretend that the West didn't covertly support the coup, and the pro-western government that came to power afterwards. On the civilian airliner, Russia itself didn't blow it up, why would the Russian government want to do such a thing? Rogue rebels carried it out, but no doubt that Russia had equipped them, and helped to cover it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
There are very few NATO Bases in Eastern Europe, however the way Putin is acting may indeed help change that, and lead to much more NATO forces being moved to Eastern Europe on a permanent footing.
It's not so much the number of bases, but rather the positioning. Just take a look at these US military bases.
You don't need to be especially observant to notice that they are surrounding Russia wherever possible, obviously there's more bases to the east in Alaska, but that's perfectly reasonable. If they could place bases in China and Mongolia there's no doubt that they would. Put yourself in Russia's shoes, would you not feel antagonised by this? Imagine if Russia had military bases in Canada and Mexico? The US would be outraged, and rightly so.
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