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Old 03-22-2017, 07:18 AM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,888,047 times
Reputation: 25341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
  • Lower premiums. Even the 5x over 3x might not a big deal. 3x$300 vs 5x$175 for example?
  • More choice, better plans.
  • Lower taxes
The pre-existing conditions is already discussed, and you will be covered. Stop spinning, liberals.
You are promising some of the same projection of benefits that Obama did with his ACA Bill---
Right now the insurance companies have not weighed in with any info about pricing, about pooling, about coverage---
You don't KNOW what the coverage for any of these new plans will be---
You are just projecting positives because you don't want to admit you don't know what will be the end result...

This is one of the major issues with anything like this--
The people pushing it just push positives and promise good outcomes but the ones who actually have to PRODUCE the insurance policies and deal with delivering on the "systems" that evolve under this new law have not provided ANY PROOF of what choices people are going to be offered...

That is one reason Obama caught such flak--because some doctors and hospitals backed out of participating in insurance policies and people wound up NOT being able to keep their doctors or hospitals under the ACA policies. That wasn't Obama's fault---it was the doctors who didn't trust the evolving systems...and because of the FREE MARKET didn't have to participate and they pulled out...

This new plan cannot guarantee ANY doctor or hospital will be willing to participate under it because right now NO ONE knows what these plans will actually look like...

And based on the lies Aetna and other insurance companies have come out with about why they are having trouble with the ACA I wouldn't believe anything insurance companies had to say about the viability of this new law because they are totally self-interested and profit motivated---because this is a "free market" system...

 
Old 03-22-2017, 08:11 AM
 
8,156 posts, read 3,680,515 times
Reputation: 2721
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
  • Lower premiums. Even the 5x over 3x might not a big deal. 3x$300 vs 5x$175 for example?
  • More choice, better plans.
  • Lower taxes
The pre-existing conditions is already discussed, and you will be covered. Stop spinning, liberals.

Yep, everything will be great, people will pay less and get better choice, better coverage, zero deductibles, everybody covered, and so on .

There is one small question though, which I asked previously: who is going to start making less under the new system and why they would agree to make less. Your choices: insurance companies, hospitals, pharma, or doctors.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 09:14 AM
 
8,131 posts, read 4,330,074 times
Reputation: 4683
Donald Trump isn't a conservative and never has been one!


Donald Trump knows nothing and lacks the intellect to make intelligent decisions in Washington. That's why Ryan is using Trump like a "puppet" to bully his personal agenda through Congress. The Republicans voting against the repeal of Obamacare finally are listening to their constituents, "Do Your Job."
 
Old 03-22-2017, 09:21 AM
 
9,911 posts, read 7,704,457 times
Reputation: 2494
Just do away with insurance or make a universal health system. I say do away with insurance. In doing so have no more lobbyist in Congress and end taxes on various areas of healthcare

Individuals are taxed through paycheck for emergency/catastrophic care. Emergency and catastrophic care is for individuals need a life saving service, but lack finances to pay for it. Government will pay 75% cost of care.

niversal health care for those 65 & older. In addition to, the tax also covers universal healthcare for those in the military.

For those in the Guard, Inactive Duty, or Reserve not on Active Duty eligible to receive 50% off any health care services. In addition to, after discharge from the military based off how many years of active duty receive that many years of universal health care. So say you did 4 you receive 4 year's while no longer in the military. If you did 20 you receive 20. So if individual joins at 25 serves 15 years they'll basically be guaranteed universal care the rest of their life. Immediate family is covered for spouse and children 21 & under till 65 years old.

Veterans can receive 50% off cost of care at any VA facility.

Federal Government employees receive 50% off of care. Discounts for State/Local government officials determined at the State/Local levels.

End blocks on Medicare and continue to tax for Medicare. Set up a 6 year term limit for those on Medicare. Two levels...individuals who are homeless or unemployed can apply to receive 100% coverage towards healthcare cost. Individuals after 2 years have to pay 75% of cost and eligible for 4 years. After 6 years it's a 2 year wait to reapply.

Disability would be 100% coverage of care by the Government.

Tax to cover 75% cost of care for individuals who are in treatment of cancer.

End government funding to large pharmaceuticals, increase funding to smaller pharmaceutical organizations , and less red tape in regards to pharmaceuticals. In addition to, government control of cost for all generic medications.

Government covers cost of emergency abortions or special circumstances in regards to abortions. Continue to fund planned parenthood and adoptive services in the US.

Do away with patents on medical equipment and supplies.

Legalize marijuana. Place excess tax on marijuanna, alcohol, and cigarettes to fund universal mental health and substance abuse care. US Territories and Native American Reservations are exempt from this excess tax.

Healthcare providers make transparent what they provide and cost of various services. Vouchers are offered to assist with cost. Generic services for care would have a maximum cost set by the State residing to encourage competitiveness.

Tax rebates for those who don't smoke, obtain a physical every year, have a dental cleaning, and so forth.

Employers and other organizations can set up Health Savings Accounts for individuals.

Government program that pays for child care based off the percentage of annual income. For individuals making $120,000 a year or less. Example if individuals make a joint income of $120,000 a year and child care cost $20,000 that's 16% of their annual income. They receive 16% back based off the cost of child care so about $3,000.

Tax to pay for inpatient at non profit health facilities. Government pays 30% cost of care.

Healthcare is for all in the US. Tax discounts are for individuals who pay taxes in the US or US areas.

Last edited by RunD1987; 03-22-2017 at 09:57 AM..
 
Old 03-22-2017, 09:26 AM
 
16,376 posts, read 22,494,081 times
Reputation: 14398
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
They are going into full on fascist mode now.
We knew this would occur. It will be interesting to see Trump throw various members of the GOP congress under the bus. He'll tweet their names, trash them and end the tweet with "sad" if they don't vote the way he wants them to vote.

I think they know this and they might try to prevent the vote from occurring in the house if they know it won't pass.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 09:28 AM
 
19,649 posts, read 12,235,883 times
Reputation: 26443
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
We knew this would occur. It will be interesting to see Trump throw various members of the GOP congress under the bus. He'll tweet their names, trash them and end the tweet with "sad" if they don't vote the way he wants them to vote.

I think they know this and they might try to prevent the vote from occurring in the house if they know it won't pass.
Today should be a tense day.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,317 posts, read 26,228,587 times
Reputation: 15648
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Today should be a tense day.
They delayed tomorrows vote, rightfully so since they really haven't had any debate on this.




Ryan seems to think that the free market competition will solve the problems with this bill, I don't see that happening.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 10:58 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,494,901 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
They delayed tomorrows vote, rightfully so since they really haven't had any debate on this.




Ryan seems to think that the free market competition will solve the problems with this bill, I don't see that happening.
Just like free market competition fixed the ACA! Not!!!! Single-Payer is the only solution in the long run.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 11:16 AM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,766,520 times
Reputation: 16993
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
You are promising some of the same projection of benefits that Obama did with his ACA Bill---
Right now the insurance companies have not weighed in with any info about pricing, about pooling, about coverage---
You don't KNOW what the coverage for any of these new plans will be---
You are just projecting positives because you don't want to admit you don't know what will be the end result...

This is one of the major issues with anything like this--
The people pushing it just push positives and promise good outcomes but the ones who actually have to PRODUCE the insurance policies and deal with delivering on the "systems" that evolve under this new law have not provided ANY PROOF of what choices people are going to be offered...

That is one reason Obama caught such flak--because some doctors and hospitals backed out of participating in insurance policies and people wound up NOT being able to keep their doctors or hospitals under the ACA policies. That wasn't Obama's fault---it was the doctors who didn't trust the evolving systems...and because of the FREE MARKET didn't have to participate and they pulled out...

This new plan cannot guarantee ANY doctor or hospital will be willing to participate under it because right now NO ONE knows what these plans will actually look like...

And based on the lies Aetna and other insurance companies have come out with about why they are having trouble with the ACA I wouldn't believe anything insurance companies had to say about the viability of this new law because they are totally self-interested and profit motivated---because this is a "free market" system...
Under what plan would guarantee any doctor or hospital to be willing participant. None. Unless you are pushing single payer system.
 
Old 03-22-2017, 11:19 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,024,933 times
Reputation: 15559
I admire your efforts to attack this complex issue....I hear it is very complicated -- lol...

Sorry -- I do appreciate reading all the various points. It doesn't give me a clear picture of how to get there....but I just know this new plan is different not better -- or better in some areas but not better in others...so it's a trade -- a mediocre plan with Obama's name attached traded for a mediocre plan with Trump's name.

Either way -- it doesn't seem to solve some of the most basic problems......
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